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  1. #1966
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoploss View Post
    Hi JB ,
    could do , currently second tier lenders have been swamped ......
    Seems everyone currently wants to become a property investor .Anyone looking at moving desperately trying to hold onto current home and buy another .
    Depending upon the lender this has become a lot more difficult if you take the 40 % deposit for investment property and 20 % for the new .Note they can do 10 % of their lending below the 20 % but can pick and choose . ( There are a lot of variables around this between lenders)
    So currently things are a lot tighter , especially if you don't have 20 % deposit .
    Also due to the responsible lending code , the serviceability criteria has tightened up a lot .
    This is before the potential income to debt criteria that may come in ..........

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/property/n...ectid=11737196

    Love it!

  2. #1967
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    I've said it before, but about 40% of people who's name is on a deed of title, have their name on more than 1 title. Source: Land Information NZ's database. I work in an industry with access to the figures

  3. #1968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewylewylewy View Post
    I've said it before, but about 40% of people who's name is on a deed of title, have their name on more than 1 title. Source: Land Information NZ's database. I work in an industry with access to the figures
    When housing is the main investment in this country it is not hard to see why... Given the massive returns in the last few years you would be hard pressed to find a better investment.

    The problem is that you now have a generation forced to borrow for higher education and facing the fallout of the GFC which has meant that high paying jobs and wage increases each year are no longer a thing.

    I'm 29 and have seen only 3 wage increases in the last 7 years.. I work long hours and have clocked over 40 hours overtime this month alone!

    But because of my Student loan the government takes a considerable percentage of my overtime and regular pay that never arrives in my bank account...

    On top of that If I try to take a weeks pay in the hand then again a considerable percentage of that is immediately taken for my Student loan.

    Easy to dismiss this with the "I remember the mortgage on my first house ..." .. How about start with 40K in debt and a housing market that forces you to pay $550,000 for your first house

    Now start on 40K a year and have no support from your parents who also rent and struggling to make ends meet..

    On top of that now throw in the huge threat of Interest rate hikes on a $550,000 mortgage you paid for a house falling apart.

    This is what screwed means for the current generation (I'm not asking for a handout just a chance in my own country to own a home) .

    "Oh but it has always been hard" whatever, go back 4 years and your see places in Auckland for 350 K.

    No one cares about our generation and it will come back to bite them when we find our voice....

  4. #1969
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverQuestion View Post
    When housing is the main investment in this country it is not hard to see why... Given the massive returns in the last few years you would be hard pressed to find a better investment.

    The problem is that you now have a generation forced to borrow for higher education and facing the fallout of the GFC which has meant that high paying jobs and wage increases each year are no longer a thing.

    I'm 29 and have seen only 3 wage increases in the last 7 years.. I work long hours and have clocked over 40 hours overtime this month alone!

    But because of my Student loan the government takes a considerable percentage of my overtime and regular pay that never arrives in my bank account...

    On top of that If I try to take a weeks pay in the hand then again a considerable percentage of that is immediately taken for my Student loan.

    Easy to dismiss this with the "I remember the mortgage on my first house ..." .. How about start with 40K in debt and a housing market that forces you to pay $550,000 for your first house

    Now start on 40K a year and have no support from your parents who also rent and struggling to make ends meet..

    On top of that now throw in the huge threat of Interest rate hikes on a $550,000 mortgage you paid for a house falling apart.

    This is what screwed means for the current generation (I'm not asking for a handout just a chance in my own country to own a home) .

    "Oh but it has always been hard" whatever, go back 4 years and your see places in Auckland for 350 K.

    No one cares about our generation and it will come back to bite them when we find our voice....
    I Agree ...at 38 I've been lucky enough to have been able to buy property much cheaper when I was in my early 20's as I never got a Uni loan as I left school at 17 and started full time employment ....IMHO gave me a great headstart on mates that spent many years at Uni to come away with huge debts (my wife still has a small amount to go).... still I don't have the Qualifications so moving away from my hard labour job as I get older isn't going be as easy to get a good paying white collar job >>>

    You can really see the divide going to spread from the richer families to the average-lower incomes struggling ...as large inheritances pass downwards to smaller families(than the past) .... I know of many very wealthy families with just one kid ....!!!
    People don't have ideas, ideas have people

  5. #1970
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    I see from the NZ Herald that NZ residential property value has hit One trillion dollars, whilst the NZ share market capitalisation is at $116 billion. I don't know how this compares to the countries with which we like to compare ourselves (Aus, UK Canada USA) but I suspect their sharemarkets are valued at a higher proportion of their residential housing. NZ residential housing is the go-to investment and in my opinion, the NZ government could do more to encourage financial and business share and equity investments. With the current trends, NZers will end up being a land of mostly tenants being employed by foreign owned businesses and living in houses owned by wealthy local and foreign landowners.

    See http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11781028

  6. #1971
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    I see from the NZ Herald that NZ residential property value has hit One trillion dollars, whilst the NZ share market capitalisation is at $116 billion. I don't know how this compares to the countries with which we like to compare ourselves (Aus, UK Canada USA) but I suspect their sharemarkets are valued at a higher proportion of their residential housing. NZ residential housing is the go-to investment and in my opinion, the NZ government could do more to encourage financial and business share and equity investments. With the current trends, NZers will end up being a land of mostly tenants being employed by foreign owned businesses and living in houses owned by wealthy local and foreign landowners.

    See http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11781028
    Yes outside those employed in the property sector our love affair with local property looks problematic ....

    -Huge debt to household income (the debt which is mostly held by foreign nationals , NZ very poor savers)

    -low investment in new NZ businesses..... IPO's etc..

    -Huge earthquake risks to our million dollar pads .....Again Insurance costs to foreign balance sheets (ongoing increase premiums)


    Really when you look at NZ are so called Rock star economy is heavily biassed on other countries though TOURISM # 1
    and Debt fueled property market ... we have is a low income economy + High living costs .. add in are aging population
    + muti year property bubble ....

    thinking we will have some much tougher years ahead as a nation

    fundamentally on the wrong road........ incomes Vs Debt
    Last edited by JBmurc; 14-01-2017 at 03:36 PM.
    People don't have ideas, ideas have people

  7. #1972
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    This is the closest thread I could find re Auckland House prices.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/11/worl...much-debt.html

    Good on the world bank for stating the blatantly obvious.

    I wonder how much of the Chinese funny money pumped up Auckland house prices. Labour stopping foreigners buying houses in NZ was a good move imo.

    Property experts in the papers prior to the ban were saying how little overseas buyers affect the market. Real estate agents aren't saying this anymore.


    I think QE is more likely than QT so I don't see how debt will reduce unless something forces a change.
    Last edited by Aaron; 12-04-2019 at 08:31 AM.

  8. #1973
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    The monthly analysis reports at the below link are useful. Auckland very different from much of the rest of the country. Data is asking prices, not actual, but based on high listing volumes, and include 'eyeballs'. They do a rental analysis as well.

    https://property.trademe.co.nz/market-insights/

  9. #1974
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    Update on the nz first homebuyers are screwed...
    Well, how wrong was I about my predictions...!!
    In saying that for myself I wouldn't have done anything different...for me I was never going to lock into a lifetime mortgage...not being locked into the mortgage trap has allowed me to do business and become self employed...
    I'm actually looking to purchase my first house very soon...I'm in my mid 30s now and will be clearing that mortgage very fast...

    .^sc
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  10. #1975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shrewd Crude View Post
    Update on the nz first homebuyers are screwed...
    Well, how wrong was I about my predictions...!!
    In saying that for myself I wouldn't have done anything different...for me I was never going to lock into a lifetime mortgage...not being locked into the mortgage trap has allowed me to do business and become self employed...
    I'm actually looking to purchase my first house very soon...I'm in my mid 30s now and will be clearing that mortgage very fast...

    .^sc
    Good luck with that SC. You must have joined Sharetrader at a very young age.

    Buying a first house in today's market with so much uncertainty around takes cojones.

    The latest Demographia survey places NZ as the most unaffordable house market (by quite a big margin) compared to the countries we like to compare ourselves with (Australia, Canada, USA, UK.)

    So the NZGovt faces considerable pressure to increase development and investment settings to make our housing sufficient for the demand from a growing population and affordable

  11. #1976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    ....
    So the NZGovt faces considerable pressure to increase development and investment settings to make our housing sufficient for the demand from a growing population and affordable
    The public sector - central and local - could help by stepping back from onerous and expensive interventions. Like - rural / urban boundaries, ever increasing costs and compliance on rental owners, inconsistent and sometimes loopy rules both within and across local authorities and MBIE.

    A while back Rodney Hide suggested a trial scheme within a tightly bounded area where people could build what they wanted and needed at their own risk. I doubt whether he expected it to actually happen but it could work.

    And about affordable - half of all NZ sales in January were below $615,000. Some well below. All very well to say median (or average) price is unaffordable for those on median household income but nobody has a gun to their head to stop them buying below median.

    And FHBs seem to be doing OK - Reserve Bank residential bank lending to FHBs is more than twice what it was 2 years ago.

  12. #1977
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Good luck with that SC. You must have joined Sharetrader at a very young age.

    Buying a first house in today's market with so much uncertainty around takes cojones.

    The latest Demographia survey places NZ as the most unaffordable house market (by quite a big margin) compared to the countries we like to compare ourselves with (Australia, Canada, USA, UK.)

    So the NZGovt faces considerable pressure to increase development and investment settings to make our housing sufficient for the demand from a growing population and affordable
    Shewd Crude is fortunate to be on the path for getting into a home. I myself didn't own my 1st home until I was around the same age. With interests rates going lower and lower (soon to be negative), there's all the incentive for people to own their 1st home.

    I've mentioned before that the NZ gov't isn't serious about making houses affordable. It never has and never will while places like Canada has make homes more affordable (and at least addressed the issue). Perhaps it's due to the MMP election system we have that puts gov't in a no-win situation ; ie. the issue of CGT being squashed down by NZ 1st. Then you have the supply issue where local councils are not playing ball with Parliament. Crown land not being released into public hands (as local Iwi getting 1st pick - and lots of Iwi's are slow at development). We have the Christchurch council too slow at releasing land for development and Wellington says we're not going to give you transfer funding for the rebuilt ; then the council puts the burden on the rate payers ; last I hear Ecan wants rates to go from 8% to 13% rise for next year. Yes taxation is a key determinant - I mean what else would you expect??? You have an asset class in residential property that is pretty much goes exempt from any capital gains tax, while the NZ gov't pushes the low and middle class into Kiwi Saver, for which that asset class is taxed and much higher levels (ie FIF tax on years of paper negative returns). I know of no where else in the OECD that has such a huge disparity of taxation than NZ.

  13. #1978
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    Shewd Crude is fortunate to be on the path for getting into a home. I myself didn't own my 1st home until I was around the same age. With interests rates going lower and lower (soon to be negative), there's all the incentive for people to own their 1st home. ....
    Sure negative rates will be great if you manage to keep your current amount of income all through the upcoming months of Corona Virus uncertainty. You just have to hope you are not in an industry bearing the brunt.

    True, you will have to rely on the NZ government keeping on the same course of ensuring NZers investments remain mainly planted in inflating residential land values.

  14. #1979
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemis View Post
    The public sector - central and local - could help by stepping back from onerous and expensive interventions. Like - rural / urban boundaries, ever increasing costs and compliance on rental owners, inconsistent and sometimes loopy rules both within and across local authorities and MBIE.

    A while back Rodney Hide suggested a trial scheme within a tightly bounded area where people could build what they wanted and needed at their own risk. I doubt whether he expected it to actually happen but it could work.

    And about affordable - half of all NZ sales in January were below $615,000. Some well below. All very well to say median (or average) price is unaffordable for those on median household income but nobody has a gun to their head to stop them buying below median.

    And FHBs seem to be doing OK - Reserve Bank residential bank lending to FHBs is more than twice what it was 2 years ago.
    How the goal posts have changed over the years in getting those necessary deposits! Now being able to afford a first deposit in your 30's is seen as doing well. It used to be in your early 20's.

  15. #1980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    How the goal posts have changed over the years in getting those necessary deposits! Now being able to afford a first deposit in your 30's is seen as doing well. It used to be in your early 20's.
    Your comparing just the right front leg of a centipede with one of the other 99. I bought my first house in 1970, having just completed my apprenticeship - a full 5 years in those days, on nowhere near adult wages until being fully qualified. I had my full time job, and worked two part-time jobs as well. I managed to buy an old dump, but what a struggle. Borrowing a first and second mtge. through my solicitor, which was the only option, but I got there. Banks weren't an option then. Not many of my friends bought homes at that age. I'd never been out of the country - no young people had. Even if we wanted to, we weren't allowed to take any money beyond just enough to live on - very basically. Houses of that era had pathetic bathrooms and kitchens by today's standards (even brand new houses). University education was beyond most of us. I could write a book, but I'll spare you - suffice to say life wasn't all chocolates and jelly-beans at all. It was hardly like the same planet. Rear vision-mirrors are highly prone to fogging-up.

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