HLG - Hallenstein Glasson

[boysy]

Wow, I can really see how these "experts" earn their money. International chains expected to expand, they say. Such insight!

It would appear as though some holders thought these international chains would not expand which clearly they are.

[Raz]

It would appear as though some holders thought these international chains would not expand which clearly they are.

It been well know they are coming to Christchurch for over 12 months, just waiting on the buildings to be completed....

[Regi]

I agree with a few people here but bottom line is, you're delusional if you think H&M and Zara are;
1: Going to stay put in sylvia park
2: Not going to affect HLG

Zara is fast fashion and will be updating their in store stock I think twice a week I read somewhere. They are one of the top retailers at adjusting and listening to their customers. Something doesn't sell? You won't see it sitting there for long. Their capabilities and efficiency is something that HLG can simply not compete with and I really don't think HLG has that sort of brand that attracts loyalty or screams style like Zara does. New Zealander's are naturally going to be super excited and 'proud' to shop at these European fashion giants much like Chinese seeing Western Brands as aspirational.

H&M is ridiculously cheap. With far more selection and at better prices... I don't know why people would shop at HLG. Sure it's only in Sylvia Park at the moment which is the only way you can downplay immediate effects but this is not going to be a one off and definitely not a stock I would want to be holding.

Ofcourse these two aren't going to rob HLG of all sales but as they expand there is no reason you would prefer to shop at HLG over Zara or H&M. They beat HLG in style, brand, experience (both customer and business) AND price. I know Glassons for example at my local mall St Lukes had a pretty nice upgrade to its store as have many others and speaking with the manager there it was literally in response to Zara and H&M coming. If you go there you will notice it's a much more European feel rather than the sad wall racked cloth retailers Kiwi's are used to. So I've been able to physically see HLG responding, I hope for investor sakes they have also been preparing the side of the business that we can't see because don't kid yourselves that it will remain unaffected.

I spend a lot of time in Europe and these are two far superior chains to HLG. Of course, my opinion... but I think it would be foolish to think that consumers will not share my opinion and instead imagine they have some unwavering loyalty to HLG and the idea their "excellent" management will be able to steal back lost customers. I would have hoped it would be common sense but some people seem to think this will just blow over and everyone will live in harmony so I wrote this more for an outside reader who may be swayed by false hope.

All this is my opinion, DYOR.

[BlackPeter]

I agree with a few people here but bottom line is, you're delusional if you think H&M and Zara are;
1: Going to stay put in sylvia park
2: Not going to affect HLG

Zara is fast fashion and will be updating their in store stock I think twice a week I read somewhere. They are one of the top retailers at adjusting and listening to their customers. Something doesn't sell? You won't see it sitting there for long. Their capabilities and efficiency is something that HLG can simply not compete with and I really don't think HLG has that sort of brand that attracts loyalty or screams style like Zara does. New Zealander's are naturally going to be super excited and 'proud' to shop at these European fashion giants much like Chinese seeing Western Brands as aspirational.

H&M is ridiculously cheap. With far more selection and at better prices... I don't know why people would shop at HLG. Sure it's only in Sylvia Park at the moment which is the only way you can downplay immediate effects but this is not going to be a one off and definitely not a stock I would want to be holding.

Ofcourse these two aren't going to rob HLG of all sales but as they expand there is no reason you would prefer to shop at HLG over Zara or H&M. They beat HLG in style, brand, experience (both customer and business) AND price. I know Glassons for example at my local mall St Lukes had a pretty nice upgrade to its store as have many others and speaking with the manager there it was literally in response to Zara and H&M coming. If you go there you will notice it's a much more European feel rather than the sad wall racked cloth retailers Kiwi's are used to. So I've been able to physically see HLG responding, I hope for investor sakes they have also been preparing the side of the business that we can't see because don't kid yourselves that it will remain unaffected.

I spend a lot of time in Europe and these are two far superior chains to HLG. Of course, my opinion... but I think it would be foolish to think that consumers will not share my opinion and instead imagine they have some unwavering loyalty to HLG and the idea their "excellent" management will be able to steal back lost customers. I would have hoped it would be common sense but some people seem to think this will just blow over and everyone will live in harmony so I wrote this more for an outside reader who may be swayed by false hope.

All this is my opinion, DYOR.

No question there will be an impact ... I guess NZ retail shops are decades behind the rest of the world - compare product price and quality anywhere in the US, or any hub in Asia or in Europe with the stuff they sell here, and it is immediately clear why NZ retailers lose that much business to international internet shopping.

So - yes, it will have an impact (good!), it will be great for consumers (good!), it is likely to reduce the internet shopping (why pay lots of money for P&P if you can get the good stuff at a reasonable price as well in NZ - good!) and it might help NZ retailers like HLG to improve their standards (good, if it does). Nothing more helpful than a bit of competition as wake up call.

I guess we will see, whether they manage to survive the challenge, but I am optimistic. Given that we Kiwis are normally so proud of our No 8 mentality ... now that some international retailers are waking us up from our "low fashion - high price" sleep ... lets get up and fight back.

I think this could be the opportunity for NZ business to improve - and grow the retail pie. Maybe we could even turn into a shopping destination - instead of selling tourists for decades the same models of lamb-wool jerseys. My mother visited us here regularly every 2 or 3 years and noticed that they had on her last visit here (15 years on) still the same models in the tourist shops they had at her first visit ... OK - this is not HLG, but they are not much better ...

Don't see this as the end for HLG - and even as an opportunity to improve their business, if they are worth their money. If not - well, than it might be time to find another home for the dollars invested in HLG ... but I don't think there is any rush - just watch how these years X-Mas sales are going ... I certainly will.

Discl: hold (a small parcel);

[Jaa]

it is likely to reduce the internet shopping (why pay lots of money for P&P if you can get the good stuff at a reasonable price as well in NZ - good!)

Your dreaming. Zara and H&M will use flagship stores in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch to establish their presence and then use their internet sites with free shipping to target the rest of NZ. Uniqlo and Forever 21 will follow suit.

[Subway]

No question there will be an impact ... I guess NZ retail shops are decades behind the rest of the world - compare product price and quality anywhere in the US, or any hub in Asia or in Europe with the stuff they sell here, and it is immediately clear why NZ retailers lose that much business to international internet shopping.

So - yes, it will have an impact (good!), it will be great for consumers (good!), it is likely to reduce the internet shopping (why pay lots of money for P&P if you can get the good stuff at a reasonable price as well in NZ - good!) and it might help NZ retailers like HLG to improve their standards (good, if it does). Nothing more helpful than a bit of competition as wake up call.

I guess we will see, whether they manage to survive the challenge, but I am optimistic. Given that we Kiwis are normally so proud of our No 8 mentality ... now that some international retailers are waking us up from our "low fashion - high price" sleep ... lets get up and fight back.

I think this could be the opportunity for NZ business to improve - and grow the retail pie. Maybe we could even turn into a shopping destination - instead of selling tourists for decades the same models of lamb-wool jerseys. My mother visited us here regularly every 2 or 3 years and noticed that they had on her last visit here (15 years on) still the same models in the tourist shops they had at her first visit ... OK - this is not HLG, but they are not much better ...

Don't see this as the end for HLG - and even as an opportunity to improve their business, if they are worth their money. If not - well, than it might be time to find another home for the dollars invested in HLG ... but I don't think there is any rush - just watch how these years X-Mas sales are going ... I certainly will.

Discl: hold (a small parcel);

Regi is right on the money, when I was in NZ I never shopped at Hallensteins, I found the quality lacking and pricey for basic staples, now im based in Europe I regularly shop at Zara/Uniqlo and i'm going out on a limb here but I see zero future in Hallensteins, they will simply fade away. Barkers will probably take up some of that market share, I can't speak for Glassons, although I fear it will suffer the same fate.

[BlackPeter]

Your dreaming. Zara and H&M will use flagship stores in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch to establish their presence and then use their internet sites with free shipping to target the rest of NZ. Uniqlo and Forever 21 will follow suit.

Dreaming? - hardly ... I can state here in affirmative that I never ever dreamt about internet shopping.

However - what I meant (and should have said) is "international internet shopping". I agree that national Internet shopping is likely to grow, though I think that the internet market for cloths and garment has a natural limit. Many people just prefer to try the stuff before they buy.

[BlackPeter]

Regi is right on the money, when I was in NZ I never shopped at Hallensteins, I found the quality lacking and pricey for basic staples, now im based in Europe I regularly shop at Zara/Uniqlo and i'm going out on a limb here but I see zero future in Hallensteins, they will simply fade away. Barkers will probably take up some of that market share, I can't speak for Glassons, although I fear it will suffer the same fate.

Looks like we vehemently agree on the current state of retail in NZ.

However ... looks like Hallenstein did over the last 130 odd years quite well without your custom (and admittedly only the occasional rare visit from myself). I learned some time ago that I might miss out on great opportunities if I only invest into companies who's products (or services) I like - other customers might just have a different view. There are a number of companies making nice money without the benefit of my (or your) custom.

In my case I could e.g. think about RBD, WHS, CEN, FBU, SPK, SKY to name just a few companies I try to avoid as a customer (not always successful I must admit), but they still often make nice money.

Not liking their products or service is no reason not to invest in them, if they are successful and find enough other customers who do like them ...

Note (1): I didn't say that Hallenstein will be successful, but I think they have a fighting chance.

Note(2): I didn't say that above companies are at current in my view a good investment - some are, some are not.

Discl: hold WHS and HLG and used to hold at some stage most of the other shares I mentioned.

[percy]

Just the thoughts from some one who has been around retail far too long.
Activity breeds activity.
Original low cost stores in NZ were McKenzies and Woolworths.Their stores were always just a few doors from each other,as were department stores.Why? Activity breeds activity.
In Malls that added a Whitcoulls,the existing bookshop's sales increased.Why? Activity breeds activity.
Today in Malls they have food courts.McDonalds,Muffin Break etc are always welcome.Why? Activity breeds activity.
Again today Malls put all the fashion retailers together.Why? Activity breeds activity.
I would therefore would think retailers such as HLG would welcome new retailers.Why ? Activity breeds activity,which is good for all neighbouring retailers.
I should also point out good retailers such as HLG know within a day or two whether a new line/range is a winner or not,and act accordingly,either ordering more or altering pricing.
So I would not be at all surprised if the next update from HLG is a cracker.
As always I remain "well positioned".

[winner69]

Just the thoughts from some one who has been around retail far too long.
Activity breeds activity.
Original low cost stores in NZ were McKenzies and Woolworths.Their stores were always just a few doors from each other,as were department stores.Why? Activity breeds activity.
In Malls that added a Whitcoulls,the existing bookshop's sales increased.Why? Activity breeds activity.
Today in Malls they have food courts.McDonalds,Muffin Break etc are always welcome.Why? Activity breeds activity.
Again today Malls put all the fashion retailers together.Why? Activity breeds activity.
I would therefore would think retailers such as HLG would welcome new retailers.Why ? Activity breeds activity,which is good for all neighbouring retailers.
I should also point out good retailers such as HLG know within a day or two whether a new line/range is a winner or not,and act accordingly,either ordering more or altering pricing.
So I would not be at all surprised if the next update from HLG is a cracker.
As always I remain "well positioned".

Good post mate - from an old wise head

Activity breeds activity = the pie gets bigger (as hopefully your share of that pie is bigger as well)

but remember percy the world is changing and the young uns think differently from us and always know best. So we need to take care in case this time they are actually right