GOLD

[dumbass]

think we may well look at the markets from different perspectives, my background is technical analysis and have never really bought into the perceived manipulation that you feel dominates the markets.
I know from personal experience that there are big players exerting an influence on markets but they tend to be short term exploitive moves rather than some big multi year effect.
The idea that the price of gold is artificial engineered by mysterious forces over long time frames instead of being governed by normal market forces just doesnt add up.
If gold wants to move up then why swim against the stream just manipulate the market in the direction it wants to move, its way more profitable.

dumbass , I read and watch the mainstream media as well as the non MSM. I have generally found that what passes for news today (and particularly financial news) is often propaganda and this is usually confirmed to be so in the course of time."

Since when did a serious investor make any kind of investment decision based on whats in the media , other than to confirm a contrarian view.

generally im in agreement with your views, i believe there has been a monumental corrective shift in the credit markets which will never revert back to their indulgent past behaviour but why focus blindly on gold, there are many other asset classes that will be very profitable in the third leg of this bear market.
the quality of your last article does not in any way provide us with insight other than too the authors riduculous narrow minded investment outlook.

gold will be a buy and a sell but to so completely focus on it and ignore everything else is in my mind a very risky proposition.

If you continue to believe everything that gets trotted out by Obama, Geithner, Bernanke, Brown etc. then I think you will be very unprepared for what lies ahead. Look beyond the headlines, delve deeper into the issues and have an open mind.

i have the broadest of minds because i know anything is possible over any asset and its always in the charts.

[Mick100]

aussie

Have you read the book - "the fourth turning"

It's got nothing to do with gold but nevertheless ties in with your thinking
,

[Aussie]

aussie

Have you read the book - "the fourth turning"

It's got nothing to do with gold but nevertheless ties in with your thinking
,

It sounds familiar Mick. Can you elaborate? Who was the author?

[Mick100]

It sounds familiar Mick. Can you elaborate? Who was the author?

Author: william strauss and Neil howe

A facinating book about generational cycles

If you believe that there will be some major changes in the world over the next 10 - 15 yrs, as i do, then this book provides the possible reasons for the turmoil and explains how turmoil and change is unavoidable

[Aussie]

. . . generally im in agreement with your views, i believe there has been a monumental corrective shift in the credit markets which will never revert back to their indulgent past behaviour but why focus blindly on gold, there are many other asset classes that will be very profitable in the third leg of this bear market.
the quality of your last article does not in any way provide us with insight other than too the authors riduculous narrow minded investment outlook.

gold will be a buy and a sell but to so completely focus on it and ignore everything else is in my mind a very risky proposition.


i have the broadest of minds because i know anything is possible over any asset and its always in the charts.

dumbass, that article was written by Bill Buckler, an highly regarded and internationally respected commentator and author of The Privateer. Bill has been providing informed market commentary and authoring The Privateer since 1984 - he's seen a lot. That particular piece is from his weekly gold commentary called "Gold This Week". I quoted it into this particular section of NZ Sharetrader because it is for info about . . . gold! That's what this section of the board is for - gold. It's not the investment advice section so in that regard I consider it relevant.

The purpose of articles and anything anyone posts here is NOT to give investment advice - it's just stuff that I like and others may find interesting. People can make up their own minds. I do not focus exclusively on gold, I like it and believe it's time is coming but it's not the only investment I have. And yes, there most certainly will be a time to sell.

I can understand that as a TA guy, to you everything is in the charts. But I contend that while the charts are valuable and do indicate trends, they should be used as a guide only because they are quite often "painted" by market makers and those in control - especially the gold chart.

If you really look into the GATA perspective you will find a very compelling case for the manipulation of the gold market by US Treasury and Fed working in tandem with other central banks and certain Wall St. and City of London firms. Their motives FOR doing so are clear, they are in the position TO do it and have benefited greatly FROM doing it. Everything that has happened to date to a large extent is a result OF it.

In this area I categorically disagree with you. As far as I am concerned, the evidence for the long-term manipulation of the gold price is mounting almost daily and I challenge you to look into it for yourself.

As Bill himself so eloquently puts it . . .

"In any discussion of the future of Gold, or of the price of Gold, the first thing that must be realized is that Gold is a POLITICAL metal. In the true meaning of the word, its price is "governed".

This is so for the very simple reason that Gold in its historical role as a currency is fundamentally incompatible with the modern worldwide financial system.

Up until August 15, 1971, there has never in history been an era when no paper currency was linked to Gold. The history of money is replete with instances of coin clipping, printing, debt defaults, and the other attendant ills of currency debasement. In all other eras of history, people could always escape to other currencies, whose Gold backing remained intact. But since 1971, there is NO escape because NO paper currency has any link to Gold.

All of the economic, monetary, and financial upheaval since 1971 is a direct result of this fact.

The global paper currency system is very young. It depends for its continued functioning on the BELIEF that the debt upon which it is based will, someday, be repaid. The one thing, above all others, that could shake that faith, and therefore the foundations of the modern financial system itself, is a rise (especially a sharp rise) in the U.S. Dollar price of Gold."

[Baa_Baa]

The chat here about gold (physical metal) would be better informed in the context of insurance than investment. Looking at it from an investment point of view misses the objective of owning gold. Invest and trade in Gold derivatives (options futures ETF's stocks etc) if you will, but discussing physical precious metals like they're an easily traded investment asset class isn't helpful.

BAA

[Dr_Who]

The Chinese are have been buying gold for their reserve. China now holds over 1,000 tons of gold. WOW!

[dumbass]

no surprise really they are the largest gold producer.

[Aussie]

The Value Of Money

No we are not talking about the fact that one can buy item A for $100 or item B for $1000. We are talking about something far more fundamental. We can start by making a few basic observations. First, money can perform its function only in a situtation where property rights are recognised and scrupulously upheld. There are two types of economic transactions - direct exchange or barter or indirect exchange with the use of money as the MEDIUM of exchange. Please note the term common to both types of transaction - the term exchange. By definition, an exchange presupposes three states of affairs. First, that each potential party to the exchange OWNS the good, service or sum of money put into the market. Second, both parties to the exchange can without let or hindrance of any kind choose to exchange or refrain from exchanging. Third, that when the two parties DO choose to exchange, each party values the goods received MORE THAN the goods offered in exchange.

The value of money lies in the fact that it makes the process of exchange almost infinitely easier and more efficient than would be the case if there was no medium of exchange. By doing this, it enhances to the maximum the institution of private property, a principle without which no free or prosperous civilisation can come into existence, let alone grow. Before one can exchange, one must have something to exchange. Before one has something to exchange, one must employ the effort, energy, knowledge and most important time necessary to produce it. The triumverate - life, liberty and property are indissoluble. To understand the true importance of property, only one simple question is required: "Who owns my life?"

In reason if not always in reality - slavery has a long and sordid history - there is only one answer to that question. And there was a time not so many years ago when, at least in certain parts of the world, the right to life, liberty and property was acually upheld. The nations which upheld it had certain features in common. There was no (or extremely minimal by modern standards) income tax. There was no "welfare state". Government and its bureaucracies were small and, in the main, were instituted to defend the lives and freedom of their citizens. The extent to which these features held fast varied from nation to nation. But there was one feature which did NOT vary at all. All free nations before the outset of WWI were based on SOUND money.

Sound money - Gold (or Silver) has one vital attribute. Like other economic goods or the time, energy and effort needed to create them, money if it is sound cannot be "created" out of thin air. The value of - sound - money lies in the fact that no free nation can stand on anything else. Nor can any prosperity or any viable provision for the always uncertain future. And today, as prosperity is being destroyed and as the future becomes an ever more daunting prospect that few want to look at too closely, the value of money is being displayed as never before in our lifetimes. It is being displayed by the fate of what has taken its place.

To anyone who truly understands money, the antics of the world's governments and central bankers today would be comical were it not for the tragic legacy they hold for the future. Having destroyed any semblance of a rational price system, they are now pretending that the "valuations" of assets which are in reality valueless can be maintained by creating "money" out of thin air. Having debauched the money, they have now all but eliminated any reward for holding money while exhorting their citizenry to get off their behinds and start borrowing more of it. While watching unemployment skyrocket and tent cities spring up in their midst, they maintain that the path to prosperity is to consume what has not yet been produced.

And what is the ONE item of discussion and debate which they refuse to even contemplate, let alone address? It is of course the nature of the "money" which they are "borrowing into existence". Their contempt for the VALUE of money is shown by every new regulation they pass for its redistribution. And of course, it is shown by every new $TRILLION they conjure in an increasingly doomed attempt to prolong their power to control what people use as their medium of EXCHANGE! It is a sad fact today that most people see themselves as being dependent on government, when in reality the situation is in exact reverse. Government produces NOTHING.

Slowly but surely, more and more people all over the world are coming to realise that, having blocked off almost all the avenues which remain towards the production of WEALTH, about all governments are producing these days is "money". From that, it is but a short step to the realisation that the ONLY thing that gives this fiat money any facility at all is the government's power to force its acceptance and to ban anything else from being used as a medium of exchange. From that, it is a short step to the realisation that every new unit of "money" forced on us is impoverishing us still further.

There is only one cure for what currently ails the world's economies. That is the re-introduction of two things. The first is a proper respect for money. The second is a money worthy of respect. In all of history, only Gold has earned that respect. And, having earned it, it has never faltered in providing a sound money. The issue is as basic and as important as it has always been. You can't have a free country without a sound money.

Ultimately, there will never be a free and prosperous commonwealth until the principle of the separation of money and state has achieved the same status as has the separation of church and state. The government, in principle, has no business in meddling in either. And it is a moot point as to which form of meddling has resulted in greater human tragedies and disasters in history.

[TTrader]

A little off topic but does anyone know where I can obtain information about traveling on an international flight from Australia to New Zealand carrying gold coins.