SUM - Summerset Group

[pierre]

Q4 sales metrics were posted on 8 January last year....taking longer this year because they have to run it past the PR spin merchants to try and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

You seem pretty sure about this Roger. You been talking to Norah?

[Beagle]

You seem pretty sure about this Roger. You been talking to Norah?

Yeah we're best mates now

[BlackPeter]

Q4 sales metrics were posted on 8 January last year....taking longer this year because they have to run it past the PR spin merchants to try and make a silk purse out of a sow's ear

Hi Roger, just wondering - anything (other than rolling up their toe nails) SUM could do to bring you back into a more forgiving mood?

Just looking at the sales numbers so far ... if they managed to sell in Q4 at least 77 new units, than they would have achieved their 250 target ... and as long as the number of empty units haven't materially grown (27 last time), we can't really beat them up for the resales either. Given Julian Cooks upbeating remarks in the Q3 sales report "We are pleased with the rate of new sales and progress on our developing villages" would I expect nothing less (i.e. achieving the new sales target and having not substantially more empty units than last quarter).

So - maybe you are right and they disappoint again, but at this stage I still would still give them the benefit of the doubt. I know, you had a tough Christmas, but lets still remember the spirit of the season, shall we?

[Beagle]

Its not uncommon at all for retiring CEO's to try and go out with the absolute best profit that's possible so when they sell their shares they get the best price possible. Easy enough to defer repairs and maintenance, systems upgrades, advertising, staff hire and a wide range of other expenses from the 2013 year to the next financial year. Given the circumstances surrounding her sale I think an astute investor would want to be on alert for this sort of profit "creativity" in the 2013 year and its downstream effects on the 2014 year.

[macduffy]

Its not uncommon at all for retiring CEO's to try and go out with the absolute best profit that's possible so when they sell their shares they get the best price possible. Easy enough to defer repairs and maintenance, systems upgrades, advertising, staff hire and a wide range of other expenses from the 2013 year to the next financial year. Given the circumstances surrounding her sale I think an astute investor would want to be on alert for this sort of profit "creativity" in the 2013 year and its downstream effects on the 2014 year.

Any actual evidence that this is the case - or just a gut feel resulting from past events?

[ratkin]

Any actual evidence that this is the case - or just a gut feel resulting from past events?

Bitter ramblings by the sound of it

[Beagle]

Any actual evidence that this is the case - or just a gut feel resulting from past events?

Where there's smoke there's usually fire. Look at 1H 2014 results...a bunch of excuses why underlying EPS was down despite what was ostensibly a flat sales result. Gut feel says there will be more excuses in late February.

[Beagle]

Bitter ramblings by the sound of it

The critique of a realist who's had first hand experience of seeing how ineptly they handle governance and shareholder issues.

[Joshuatree]

Ive heard first hand from a worker; not saying which village; just using this thread;saying that they are not allocated enough time to look after the residents that need care. So pressure is put on workers to dress and wash residents for example in a hurry making it very unpleasant and disrespectful to the residents and shortcuts taken e.g. dentures not cleaned and possibly nappies not replaced soon enough. It comes back to not enough staff.

[BlackPeter]

Ive heard first hand from a worker; not saying which village; just using this thread;saying that they are not allocated enough time to look after the residents that need care. So pressure is put on workers to dress and wash residents for example in a hurry making it very unpleasant and disrespectful to the residents and shortcuts taken e.g. dentures not cleaned and possibly nappies not replaced soon enough. It comes back to not enough staff.

Hmm - so this could mean:
1) You met somebody with an agenda (e.g. lazy worker being disciplined)
2) You met somebody who likes to make up stories (ever heard the one about the big fish they caught?)
3) You might have an agenda yourself (btw - do you hold or not?)
4) Any large organisation has somewhere and somewhen problems and you happened to speak with the person who was sitting in the centre of the problem
5) You forgot to ask for which retirement home this person worked ... lots of evidence for bad apples in this business
6) You spoke with a union member - they hardly have anything but bad stuff to tell about their employers (whoever they are)
7) You just uncovered an amazing problem and you are going to immediately inform the authorities. The outfall will change age care in NZ forever

Which one is it, Joshuatree?

BTW - isn't it amazing how easy it is to spread malicious rumours?