SUM - Summerset Group

[peat]

Title.
Licence to occupy to me is like a rental.You rent it only.No ownership title.
My over 60s unit I own, and have title.I die my estate can refurbish [straight away],and market it,stage it,auction it, and just meet the market.All under 3 months.
If I was in a retirement village my estate has no rights.No title,retirement village can decide to refurbish in their own good time,and be very lazy on marketing the right to occupy.My estate could wait two years or more to be paid out,for what is or has been a retirement village's "rental property"..
It therefore is/or should be the landlord's [retirement village] responsibilityto payout any estate, should they be unable to find a new resident.How can it be an estate's responsibility.?

its got nothing to do with whether it is an estate that ends up owning it. If the person decides to move , they too would have to wait for it to sell before they would receive the funds. They would get assistance from the complex, but could drive the marketing to ensure a sale. I don't think its inequitable for the owner to hold the risk. Remember though, the village wants it full just as much. So there is a common interest!

[percy]

its got nothing to do with whether it is an estate that ends up owning it. If the person decides to move , they too would have to wait for it to sell before they would receive the funds. They would get assistance from the complex, but could drive the marketing to ensure a sale. I don't think its inequitable for the owner to hold the risk. Remember though, the village wants it full just as much. So there is a common interest!

Estate.I was trying to compare my own situation.My estate selling my over 60s unit, compared to how my estate would get on if I had a right to occupy in a retirement village.
Yes you are correct it would be the same if some one decided to move out of their right to occupy village unit.
Yes a village may want the unit re let,and there is a common interest.It is just that the fact that sometimes the village does not share the common interest very strongly.
My mother died in a retirement village in Buderim.The village owner showed no interest in either preparing her unit for sale or selling it.They then stated the market was very queit at this time, and there were a lot of other villages' units for sale.
My brother said that was interesting,however as per my mother's aggreement,they had to pay her estate out after six months if the unit remained unsold.
I see the same situation happening here .May be 5 years away may be 10 years away.May be already it is happening.ie I would think trying to sell a "leaky" "right to occupy" MET unit would be a challenge.

[Vaygor1]

Thank you.
I thought Ryman too had stopped the guarantee.
However, should Ryman fail to find "a new resident" the waters remain murky.?

Yes. A bit murky I agree... as in just what interest will Ryman pay?

There is another guarantee there on the same webpage entitled 'No Capital Loss'...

No capital loss

It will be important to you and your family that you have certainty regarding the amount you are repaid when you leave the village, and that you are not exposed to any capital loss when the unit is on-sold.

“We guarantee to repay you the balance of your occupancy advance, and that the amount repaid to you will not be affected by a decline in the value of the unit.”

So yeah, a bit untidy but at least the customer (or their estate) eventually gets back their Occupany cost less the deferred management fee with some kind of interest payment in the event Ryman should dilly-dally around. I am guessing the penalty interest rate would be specified in the fine print and agreed between the parties when signing up.

[percy]

Yes its that word EVENTUALLY that distrubes me.
My wife's 93 year old uncle died recently.Lived in the same house since 1953.
After his death the [untrained] family, declulttered the house and had it sold and paid for in under 3 months.
Also we should remember the landlord has had free use of "the right to occupy money" for years to build more units/villages.

[macduffy]

Perhaps the degree of uncertainty as to timing of payment is the offset to access to rest-home, hospital, dementia care - bearing in mind Justakiwi's point that these may be inadequate at some point - that the retirement villages provide.

[justakiwi]

The reality is, these are already inadequate. Most rest homes have waiting lists (NGO or private), there are not enough hospital level beds and don’t even get me started on dementia care facilities. I have no idea what the situation is in the North Island, but down here, I have heard of many elderly spouses and families having to travel from (say) Timaru to Dunedin, to visit their loved one in full time dementia care.

How many retirement village companies are providing rest home, hospital level and/or secure dementia care, on the same site as their villages? They need to be giving this serious thought, and sooner rather than later, as the average age of our elderly is increasing, as is the incidence of dementia. Our rest home has 30 permanent residents. Only about 3 of them are under 80 years of age. Most of them are between 85 and 102! None of them could live in an independent living situation, and 2 or 3 of them are now close to needing hospital level care or D3 dementia care.

The government will always financially support these cares, but somebody needs to provide them.

Perhaps the degree of uncertainty as to timing of payment is the offset to access to rest-home, hospital, dementia care - bearing in mind Justakiwi's point that these may be inadequate at some point - that the retirement villages provide.

[peat]

My mother died in a retirement village in Buderim. The village owner showed no interest in either preparing her unit for sale or selling it.They then stated the market was very queit at this time, and there were a lot of other villages' units for sale.

There's the problem right thurr - Straya!

At the end of they day its all in the contract which can be different for every operator so one needs to read it and most people should take some advice on it.

I'm surprised Ryman guarantees no capital loss. Where does that show on the books? Do Summerset do the same?

[dabsman]

The reality is, these are already inadequate. Most rest homes have waiting lists (NGO or private), there are not enough hospital level beds and don’t even get me started on dementia care facilities. I have no idea what the situation is in the North Island, but down here, I have heard of many elderly spouses and families having to travel from (say) Timaru to Dunedin, to visit their loved one in full time dementia care.

How many retirement village companies are providing rest home, hospital level and/or secure dementia care, on the same site as their villages? They need to be giving this serious thought, and sooner rather than later, as the average age of our elderly is increasing, as is the incidence of dementia. Our rest home has 30 permanent residents. Only about 3 of them are under 80 years of age. Most of them are between 85 and 102! None of them could live in an independent living situation, and 2 or 3 of them are now close to needing hospital level care or D3 dementia care.

The government will always financially support these cares, but somebody needs to provide them.

All of these comments make me feel like a lot of profit in the coming years coming my way... what an opportunity!

[justakiwi]

But only if these companies think outside the square and understand that long term, the rest home, hospital level and dementia care facilities will (in my humble opinion) be a greater “need” than independent units will be.

There are opportunities there but sadly, I can’t bring myself to invest in this area as profiting from what is a basic need for people at the end of their lives just feels wrong

All of these comments make me feel like a lot of profit in the coming years coming my way... what an opportunity!

[fish]

But only if these companies think outside the square and understand that long term, the rest home, hospital level and dementia care facilities will (in my humble opinion) be a greater “need” than independent units will be.

There are opportunities there but sadly, I can’t bring myself to invest in this area as profiting from what is a basic need for people at the end of their lives just feels wrong

Making a profit is essential for any company to survive and I feel ok about being a shareholder in a company that is improving the quality of peoples lives.There is plenty of competition and other options giving people choice.
End of life care is quite different