... aged care [not retirement villages] should be not for profit full stop...
Originally Posted by bull....
'''the [Australian] govt does not care about [retirement village operators'] profits being hit as they now see it as a social responsibility to provide care.
Originally Posted by bull....
... I also see nz sector as only a good investment until it becomes saturated and that nz sector is a race to build as many places as quickly as they can to beat there competitors this speeding up the time it will take to reach saturation. once stauration is acheived the govt here can regulate the sector as well without fear of the building stopping. make hay why the sun shines is my motto for the sector.
The increase in capacity (aka Supply) above is due to all NZ's biggest retirement operators building as much as they can as fast as they can.
NZ's biggest operator is currently RYM. Here is their NZ and Victorian (aged 75+) market share by 2020 (long after Aussie's royal commission of enquiry is finished)...
Governments both sides of the Tasman are in serious enough trouble right now, without cutting the big players off at the knees. Both governments utterly depend on the big operators within their respective countries, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
think most of you miss the point about the royal commission and what it is about.
its not about stopping aged care facilities being built. its about ensuring adequate care is in place , in such areas as staff to resident ratios etc and regulations are being followed to name a few. suggest some read up on it more.
the argument is does a for profit model provide this care against a not for profit model. the commission will decide
anyway enough said on the topic from me , dont want to upset you profit only people
And back to the share price. Come on now.....Which one of you guys Have been selling Sommerset today to buy OCA .? Bit of a drop in SUM. and a rise in the other.....
I have previously sold shares in one company to buy another, nearly always regret it. It's very rare that I personally am able to time things precisely enough to make the best deal in both companies - usually ends up being a compromise. I try to avoid it these days.
I have previously sold SUM shares at $4.96 and $5.13 to invest in other companies. I regret it now, those companies have not grown anything like as much as SUM has in the same time period.
my opinion is aged care should be not for profit full stop and i view it as unethical when it is done for profit. i must ask some kiwisaver providers where they stand on this matter.
New Zealand is one of the easiest countries in the world to set up a business. If not top of the list then very close.
Nothing stopping folk from putting money where mouth is and setting up a not-for-profit.
my opinion is aged care should be not for profit full stop and i view it as unethical when it is done for profit. i must ask some kiwisaver providers where they stand on this matter.
We could probably do with a separate thread on ethical investing.
But I consider myself to be pretty high on the ethical scale. And "ethic's" isnt something that drives my investment decisions - its a rabbit hole full of hypocrisy so I choose not to go there.
That said investing in aged care on an ethical basis is very easy. It is quite simply, about choice.
It is a given the public health system cannot fully fund our ever aging population. If it was to try the standard of care would need to be consistently very low.
So I prefer a system that, arguably, provides a reasonable standard of care through not-for-profit. And a higher standard of care from "profit" organisations. And its not so much about choice for the high dependency aged person - often their mind has passed the point of conscious awareness. Its about the family providing the best they can to see a family member through the last months / years of their life in an environment that provides as much dignity as possible for the aged person as well as comfortable surroundings for visiting families.
Over the past few years I have had to make decisions. And we have been fortunate to be in a position where we can afford choice. And given that choice on several occasions the "profit" focussed organisation has been given the nod over the not-for-profit. And for me, ethically, that was the right thing to do
I reckon SUM share price will go up today ...and over the next two weeks
Third quarter sales report due early October ....along with a profit upgrade
woof woof Keep it quiet though...see if we can nick SUM more at ~ $7.60.
Last edited by Beagle; 18-09-2018 at 09:19 AM.
Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.”
Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine
only have to look at the performance of the hospital operators in aus , dismal due to cutbacks to funding , regulation to see where the retirement sector will go over there. my personal opinion is these sectors should be socialised as not for profit sectors more as a needs based service which only provides a stay in business return.....
I agree with the gist of your point. The same could be said that many sectors are "needs based". For example, to name but two, the provision of food (food retailers) and housing (residential land.) However, there is good argument that the need to earn a good profit for the capital employed increases efficiency and research in the provision of a service - enabling better quality and bang per buck.
Originally Posted by bull....
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Keep it quiet though...see if we can nick SUM more at ~ $7.60.
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