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  1. #7951
    Membaa
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    Try doing the maths again
    Oh you're mean, lol.

    Compound Interest
    5.80%
    Year 0 $ 1,000
    Year 1 $ 1,058 5.8%
    Year 2 $ 1,119 11.9%
    Year 3 $ 1,184 18.4%
    Year 4 $ 1,253 25.3%
    Last edited by Baa_Baa; 16-06-2019 at 04:48 PM.

  2. #7952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaygor1 View Post
    Not sure about any conflict there..depends how you read it... "An ASB survey shows New Zealanders have low expectations of property prices [remaining stagnant]".
    My interpretation was Property Rising the other 'Stagnant but you are correct not quite the opposite .......... imo WAIT/WATCH

    Lot of holders capital already destroyed by SUM if you purchased a year back in the last $8 pump-n-dump

  3. #7953
    The past is practise. Vaygor1's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=fish;763078]
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaygor1 View Post
    ... Try doing the maths again
    Hahaha.. Dead right!
    I did it over only 3 years .. still have the quick-and-dirty spreadsheet open..

    Screen Shot 2019-06-16 at 6.50.44 PM.jpg

    ..so I added the 4th...

    Screen Shot 2019-06-16 at 6.58.32 PM.jpg

    ... so only 4.3% compounding per annum equates to 18.3% over 4 years... makes the 'soaring' part of the headline even more alarmist.

  4. #7954
    The past is practise. Vaygor1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamcatcher View Post
    My interpretation was Property Rising the other 'Stagnant but you are correct not quite the opposite .......... imo WAIT/WATCH

    Lot of holders capital already destroyed by SUM if you purchased a year back in the last $8 pump-n-dump

    I have a relatively small shareholding in SUM compared to my other retirement-sector holding (RYM). Bought SUM for $4.75 at the very end of Oct 2016.
    Happy enough to hold for now.

    The rapid increasing numbers in NZ and Victoria requiring age-care from here-on-in for the next 30 years gives any retirement stock a lot of upside potential to mitigate other downside factors which may eventuate.

    Attachment 10622

    For 80+, it looks like 2023 is where the real fun begins but bring it forward 5 years to 2018 where the 75+ age group are going into retirement villages en mass and things are looking good as of today.

  5. #7955
    Speedy Az winner69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamcatcher View Post
    My interpretation was Property Rising the other 'Stagnant but you are correct not quite the opposite .......... imo WAIT/WATCH

    Lot of holders capital already destroyed by SUM if you purchased a year back in the last $8 pump-n-dump
    That’s the way it goes eh dreamie

    Buy at extremely high valuations - short/medium term shareholder returns generally low/below par/negative

    Buy at low multiples (cheap) expected shareholder returns generally above average —- NOW IS ONE OF THOSE TIMES
    “ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”

  6. #7956
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    That’s the way it goes eh dreamie

    Buy at extremely high valuations - short/medium term shareholder returns generally low/below par/negative

    Buy at low multiples (cheap) expected shareholder returns generally above average —- NOW IS ONE OF THOSE TIMES
    Yep, always more fun to buy cheap and sell dear than to do it the other way around
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  7. #7957
    Speedy Az winner69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Okay, all aboard, pack up your suitcases and jump about this little journey with the Dog.
    First lets time travel back 6 years to the time when the annual meeting was held in early 2013 and have a look at a snapshot of how things were as at 31/12/2012 and journey forward from there to 31/12/2018.
    Underlying profit $15.2m underlying eps 7.15 cps, NTA $1.10 Net Assets $249m PE 43
    Underlying profit $98.6m underlying eps 44.65 cps NTA $4.38 Net Assets $978.9m PE 12.5

    But wait I hear the naysayers insist, this growth was over a period of unprecedented growth in real estate prices in N.Z. and cannot possibly be replicated going forward ! Well no I don't think so either. Rather than net assets nearly quadrupling I expect they will simply double or thereabouts.

    Auckland is the problem, most of the rest of the country is chugging along just fine.
    So what are SUM doing to recalibrate their business model to mitigate this Auckland risk ?
    1. They're not buying more land in Auckland at present.
    2. They diversifying their villages out into the provinces.
    As at 31 December 2018 they held land for development for enough units that exceeds the total units they have on hand already !
    Since then they have acquired even more land in the provinces https://www.nzx.com/announcements/332408

    So before we extrapolate forward where they might be in six years time from now lets have a little recap on yesterday's meeting.
    Very happy with the calibre of the board and senior management. Their track record of very strong underlying eps growth since listing on the NZX is to the best of my knowledge unmatched by any other company including the much revered Ryman.

    In a nutshell they recalibrating their business plan with more focus on single level units in the provinces going forward. They will be offering a much wider spread of product over a wider geographical area.

    Build target this year is a case of moderating the build rate so as to ensure there isn't an oversupply of stock.
    After the meeting Julian advised me:-
    Effectively two development blocks that were going to be very late stage FY19 have been shifted into early FY20.
    He is confident of underlying profit growth in FY 19 despite the lower build rate this year - remember that underlying profit is based upon sales numbers not build numbers.
    Sales last year were just 339 so its quite possible they will be higher in FY19.
    Resales are at a historically low level for the number of units on hand.

    The business model works well and has been constantly refined and improved over the years. I have gone to every annual meeting since early 2013 covering FY12 year and talked with Julian and the directors afterwards every time. I recall the days when the development margin was just 12% for the FY12 year.

    Now lets journey even further back to the bad old days of the GFC. What did we learn from RYM during that time.
    1. Their underlying profit improved every year throughout the GFC.
    2. The lowest forward PE the company ever traded on was from memory just 12.

    Where are we now then in terms of SUM's metrics.
    First lets have a look at NTA, because that forms the building blocks of the companies ability to drive underlying profit.
    FY12 NTA $1.10 - share price $3.08 at the time of the annual meeting covering this year's operations and historical PE was 43.
    NTA has improved from that to ~ $1.20, ~ $1.50, $1.89, $2.49, $3.47 and $4.38 as at 31/12/2018 and I believe it will be just over $5.00 by 31/12/2019.
    Fact - Every year I have attended AGM's the share price to NTA has been a minimum of double the NTA and at times nearly triple, (apart from yesterday when it was just 1.28 times NTA).

    I believe the NTA will be ~ $5.20 at year end and the shares are extremely well supported at that level technically.
    The historic PE has come down from 43, to 33.9, 30.7, 25.4, 20, 18.7 and was just 12.5 yesterday.
    I am forecasting approx. ~ $110m underlying profit for FY19, underlying eps of ~ 50 cps. Forward PE just 11.2 at $5.60.

    I think this is very close to a bottom for SUM.
    Looking forward I expect more like RYMesque type growth in underlying earnings going forward as the business has been through a super normal 7 years of growth and is more mature. Extremely favourable long term demographics and a well proven development model concentrating primarily on their well proven single level developments going forward mostly in the provinces, (along with strongly growing resales in future years capturing previous years huge IFRS revaluation profits) should see them able to sustainably grow underlying eps at circa 15% per annum on average. 15% compound growth as we know doubles underlying earnings every 5 years.

    Six years from now I think SUM's underlying earnings will be somewhere in the vicinity of $1 per share and even on a somewhat normal but quite conservative PE for a company growing earnings at this rate of say 15 this should see the share price in the region of $15, 5-6 years hence. I think the shares are currently at, or very very close to the bottom and the downside risk is very minimal and extremely modest compared to the upside potential over the medium term

    Finally the 350 v 600 build rate thing which has seemed to cause some confusion.
    600 build rate was always a 3 year target, up from 450 last year. As mentioned earlier late stage development blocks from FY19 and being shifted into FY 20 for planning and other reasons. I think the build rate for FY20 should be somewhere in the 450-500 zone and FY21 an uplift from there.
    FY22 could see it in the 550-600 zone as their well proven business development model is rolled out through a wide range of locations in regional N.Z.

    I think SUM makes a very good case for itself as a value growth company trading on compelling metrics.
    I have 100% confidence in the board and senior management.

    I think we should see about a 15% increase in the share price in the year ahead consistent with earnings growth, (I think the PE has already bottomed out)
    By way of independent cross check of my expectations the average analyst 12 month price target is $7.00. https://www.marketscreener.com/SUMME...438/consensus/

    Happy holder and happy to add SUM more on any more irrational weakness.


    Looks like Beagle has been BANNED

    In the fullness of time we’ll see whether he was spot on with his outlook ....and a $7 plus share price
    “ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”

  8. #7958
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Looks like Beagle has been BANNED

    In the fullness of time we’ll see whether he was spot on with his outlook ....and a $7 plus share price
    And here was thinking he had gone skiing with couta.

  9. #7959
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Anything less is subject to the vagaries of an illiquid market and one or two properties in that market disproportionatly affecting the median or average.
    A few very big sales disproportionately affect the average (mean), but shouldn't change the median

  10. #7960
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Looks like Beagle has been BANNED

    In the fullness of time we’ll see whether he was spot on with his outlook ....and a $7 plus share price
    Which post got him banned?

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