SUM - Summerset Group

[Beagle]

In my experience WINZ take a dim view of any assets gifted or transferred into a family trust within 10 years of application.

Do it early, if you haven't already formed a family trust by the time you are 50, why not ?

[dobby41]

Baa Baa, over the last 27 yrs I've seen more than a select very few with their money protected by a trust, some of the well known and not so well known names I've met receiving the residential care subsidy is and was disgraceful considering their financial situations, nuff said.

27years is largely irrelevant as the rules have been tuned a lot in the last few.
And rightly so IMHO.

[Joshuatree]

Trusts/estates


Thanks BB. From the financial means assessment test info.
"We'll need more information if you or your partner have ever:

• transferred assets to a trust

Re hard working nurses. Im hearing some of them do little; some medication and paperwork ;but scream and shout at the real care workers at the tip face trying to hold it all together and not take short cuts. The person i know goes straight above some nurses now to get any action as the nurses are more about hierarchy, sarcasm and are quite removed from the actual needs of the patient.

• trusts/estates
  
  
  We'll need more information if you or your partner have ever:
  
  • transferred assets to a trust
  • been the settlor, trustee or beneficiary of a trust or estate.

[dobby41]

Do it early, if you haven't already formed a family trust by the time you are 50, why not ?

Why not - because I am happy to pay around $60-70k/yr out of my millions in assets when I get to that point!

[BlackPeter]

Do you think all the hard working nurses in aged care are going to be happy receiving $26 an hour while caregivers receive $23, having spent 3 years in full-time study and with a large loan to pay off? Remember this Govt funding money won't cover any increases to nurses which will have to move to over $30 an hour to make things fair. Predominantly care based companies are yet to realise the full impact of yesterday's news.

And don't forget the hard working policemen, teachers, assistant doctors, retail staff, bus drivers, soldiers and factory workers. They all will be unhappy to see themselves now in the same pay bracket as untrained aged care staff. Expect over the next years a huge push in wages for basically everybody as well as in prices. They call this inflation. Thanks to the judge and the unions for starting the merry go round again ...! Everybody will benefit: higher prices for goods and services and higher interest rates leading to unaffordable mortgages and with that to dropping house prices. Looks like we solved all our problems!

[Beagle]

Why not - because I am happy to pay around $60-70k/yr out of my millions in assets when I get to that point!

No argument whatsoever from me on that one. But what about Joe and Sally average with say $300K in investments and a modest family home. Should their kids have a substantial chunk of their inheritance obliterated when Joe goes into a dementia ward for five years ?

[couta1]

JT, you are going off largely hearsay rather than fact, bottom line is, why should a hard working nurse with a degree, having sacrificed plenty to gain their qualification receive basically the same pay as a caregiver? Like I said earlier this can of worms has just been opened. PS-Any increase to nurses will come directly off bottom line profits, whoever the company, some would struggle to pay it and survive. PPS-Whoops forgot to mention all the hard working activities staff(Especially those working in dementia units) some with diversional therapy qualifications, who will be staying on under $18 per hr.

[dobby41]

No argument whatsoever from me on that one. But what about Joe and Sally average with say $300K in investments and a modest family home. Should their kids have a substantial chunk of their inheritance obliterated when Joe goes into a dementia ward for five years ?

Why should the kids expect anything?
You get to keep the last $120k (or thereabouts) + the house and car. So the elderly should have really expensive houses.

[kura]

In my experience WINZ take a dim view of any assets gifted or transferred into a family trust within 10 years of application.

Do it early, if you haven't already formed a family trust by the time you are 50, why not ?

This is incorrect, as I know from personal experience that timing of trust formation is irrelevant when applying for a residential care subsidy.
My mum set up a trust (for death duty purposes) back in the mid 1980's & transfered debt free rental properties into the trust.
The last 2 years of her life were spent in residential care & she was required to pay most of her cost of care.
The rule that caught her, was "deprivation of income" by transfering income earning assets into a trust, she had deprived herself of income, & this deprived income was taken into account when calculating the residential care subsidy.

However if you look at the nest generation (ie Me & other kids) and assume the trust was never distributed, then I would qualify for the full subsidy, as I have never deprived myself of either income or assets, as I never put anything into the trust, and I am not in a sole trustee/beneficiary situation.

Yes rules are complicated, & if you try to avoid the rules, your scheme will probably fail. There is going to be the rare exception to this general rule though.
Disc: Spent time reading detailed regulations & cases that were heard by Social Security Appeals Authority on the subject.

[dobby41]

kura - I think this would become more interesting also if, in the years before you needed care, that you got income from the trust (probably any trust).
Especially if that income was regular.
They are on to all of this!