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  1. #4421
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    LOL some of you guys. What part of the plain English words "binding ruling" is so difficult to understand ! The ruling isn't bound up with licorice so when the next Commissioner comes into office he decides to have a nibble...honestly this is not rocket science, Binding is exactly that, it gives the taxpayer certainty ! http://www.ird.govt.nz/technical-tax...-br-index.html
    You've got them on the run Couta1 with that 100,000 share bid at 512. Good on ya mate !
    Last edited by Beagle; 21-04-2017 at 03:35 PM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  2. #4422
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    I have no idea what to make of that last sentence Roger ; its well ,ludicrous but i must admit sounds hilarious so cheers.But it is friday and funny juice and whacky back all round i say,TGIF. Another one (week)bites the dust and the sun is sinking;.... re 5 mins earlier each day, and the world is still spinning.

  3. #4423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    LOL some of you guys. What part of the plain English words "binding ruling" is so difficult to understand ! The ruling isn't bound up with licorice so when the next Commissioner comes into office he decides to have a nibble...honestly this is not rocket science, Binding is exactly that, it gives the taxpayer certainty !
    That's a bit of a glib statement, although not unexpected. No disrespect, but dismissing out of hand any potential for your investment to be exposed to these risks, without accepting that the risks even exist, is shallow and ill-informed.

    It helps to understand the machinery of government, the role of the Policy Advice Division (PAD) at IRD, how they draft policy that goes to a Bill and then to Parliament to be enacted, and how those things fundamentally influence binding rulings. You don't have to wait for a new Commissioner to consider binding rulings. The current Commissioner and indeed the current CEO of the MSD can make their own decisions anytime they please.

    Why do you think the fourth estate chose to raise the matter of taxpayer funded carers pay rises and very quickly afterwards, raise the matter of 'retirement company's' being exempt from paying tax? If for no other reason, it is to raise awareness.

    Yes I know, you and some vocal others think that because the likelihood of these risks eventuating is in your opinion so low that they don't warrant consideration, does not mean that others will not want to consider it. Let the discussion continue, back away if to you it is trite or nonsense as you've said enough and stated your position, clear the floor and let others speak.

    A binding ruling is as pointed out binding, until the binding ruling is revoked or replaced. There are numerous examples of binding rulings that once existed but now do not. IRD can bascially do anything they want, at anytime and they don't have to let shareholders know anything about it. So can the MSD.

    Hiding clear and obvious taxpayer rorts behind a binding ruling (IRD), that is a decade old, and taxpayer largess (MSD), does not guarantee that the status quo will continue forever.

  4. #4424
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    You seem so strong in your opinion Baa Baa perhaps you should do some research and provide a link to said binding ruling and better still seeing as this topic its not particular to SUM start a thread in an appropriate section of this forum. You've articulated your opinion very thoroughly too. Presenting some facts in an appropriate thread appears to be the best way forward if this worries you.

    I'm looking forward to catching up with a few good blokes I know and hearing from Julian Cook and some of the Directors at the annual meeting on Thursday. I sleep very well at night with my investment in this needs based business trading on a very undemanding PE multiple with an underlying earnings compound average growth rate of 48% over the last 5 years.

    The taxation treatment of SUM's annual profit is clearly laid out in pages 36 and 37 of the 2016 annual report. For those who have even bothered to actually study this, rather than pontificate ad nausea about alleged rorts they'll see the clear explanation as to why SUM pay very little, (not No) tax.

    Good to see SUM as a very high growth company are only paying out about 30% of underlying profit, no sense in shareholders paying too much tax on unimputed dividends, better to channel earnings into even higher growth going forward Actually I'd prefer they didn't pay dividends at all.

    Edit: For those that are interested. If you pay just $35 for one months access you could subscribe to NBR behind the paywall where they have the full detail of the tax article with pro's and con's and response from RYM. In the comments section one person has kindly provided a link to the IRD determination. I was going to cut and paste the link to said determination here but I won't because really for such a modest price those that are specifically interested in this matter should just join and then feel free to debate the point to your hearts content in the NBR forum which fully reported the matter. I think to be fair to SUM shareholders this is a case of horses for courses. The NBR forum with rebuttal statement by RYM is the fair and correct place to debate this further in my opinion. Doing so without reading the full rebuttal statement by RYM and considering the IRD determination in detail would be just ill informed and therefore basically worthless debate in my carefully considered opinion.
    Last edited by Beagle; 22-04-2017 at 04:12 PM. Reason: Add comment on appropriate channel for further debate on this matter
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  5. #4425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    ...Actually I'd prefer they didn't pay dividends at all.
    I agree. They are a growth company, I think they should reinvest the funds used for dividends unless they are in a position to attach imputation credits.

    IRD rulings provide a measure of certainty for companies and long term investment decisions. I guess it would be counterproductive for NZ to rescind them. Perhaps general tax issues and tax possible reform belong to a different thread.

  6. #4426
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Last edited by Beagle; 22-04-2017 at 04:20 PM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  7. #4427
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    HI Roger. NBR have a pay Wall on this, can you please give us the gist of what it's about.

  8. #4428
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    See Roger's previous post.

  9. #4429
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohemian View Post
    HI Roger. NBR have a pay Wall on this, can you please give us the gist of what it's about.
    There is a NZ Herald item that refers to the NBR article. As it pertains to other retirement stocks as well, I have posted a link to it here (http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthr...l=1#post663695) on a (perhaps) more appropriate thread (Retirement Sector Valuation Criteria) http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthr...ferrerid=11527

    There may be other threads that relate to all retirement companies.

  10. #4430
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    Interesting article in the Herald today titled "Wage rises has down sides" If someone could put it on here as an attachment please as it's a very good article. (I'm still a dinosaur when it comes to this attaching stuff)

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