sharetrader
Page 1067 of 1109 FirstFirst ... 67567967101710571063106410651066106710681069107010711077 ... LastLast
Results 15,991 to 16,005 of 16623
  1. #15991
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sideshow Bob View Post
    As at the last quarterly update, they had 60.15cps in cash

    So they value the rest of the company at 0.85cps...…

    50.04% of CUE is worth $33m, or 20.6cps.

    Nuff said.
    Appreciate the sentiment... just need to be a little careful, as the NZOG financial statements consolidate 100% CUE assets and income etc. So in the report you refer to, not all of the $98M cash belongs to NZOG shareholders.

    Given the company has zero debt, I think the line on the Balance Sheet that shows "Equity Attributable to shareholders of the Group" is the key figure. That removes the CUE assets and liabilities component that does not belong to NZOG.

    The latest reported figure for this (in the most recent interim report) was $136M. So just the GAAP value of the existing assets alone were most recently reported at being worth approximately 82 cents per share.

    So, according to OGOG's advisors...we should not only pretend that Barque/Toroa and Ironbark don't exist...but we should also hand them the rest of the business for less that the carrying value of existing assets.

  2. #15992
    ***Verified NZOG Employee***
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Looks like a bunch of us are against this. And yes how about John Pagani being up front about all the bonuses/financial rewards etc he/they will get as Westland dairy company got.Talk about impartiality or whats best for investors, this is a very weak position and its fair and right for shareholders to get transparency on that and valuations.
    Nice try but my interests are the same as any other shareholder since you asked. Not only that, any interest in the transaction must be fully disclosed in the booklet, which will be sent to everyone. As I said earlier in the week, the answers to questions about valuations and all interests associated with the transaction will all be disclosed. No one has anything to hide and the reasons the directors feel their recommendation is correct will all be set out. It's always good to hold boards to account, and debate viewpoints, and the regulatory process expects you will find the information coming your way useful in informing the debate.

    You will note it is also a court-supervised process, which provides protection that everyone is treated fairly.

  3. #15993
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Auckland, , New Zealand.
    Posts
    98

    Default

    It's interesting to read the addresses to the November 2018 Annual Meeting, then some eight months later read the exact opposite in the notice of scheme of arrangement, including the story line John Pagani is sticking to closely in doing his job. In brief, it insults one's intelligence, to add to the offer requiring cash less than the cash held by the company.

    Several important points from the Minter Ellison article mentioned earlier include:

    "The target company will then hold the shareholder vote on whether to approve the scheme at the scheme meeting.
    For the scheme to be approved, target shareholders must approve the scheme by resolution of:
    • 75% of the votes cast in each interest class[1]; and
    • a simple majority of all votes on issue (whether voted or not).
    If the shareholders do not approve the scheme, it will fail. There is no “middle ground” position or ability to continue pursuing the scheme as part of the same process but just with those shareholders that voted in favour.
    If target shareholders approve the scheme, the target company will then seek final Court orders approving the scheme.
    If the Court approves the scheme, it will become binding on the target company and all of its shareholders (including on those target shareholders who voted against the scheme or did not vote at the scheme meeting) on and from the date specified in the order."

    As i read this its all or nothing with a scheme of arrangement. OGOG either end up with all of the shares, or nothing happens. No reaching 90% and the compulsory aquisition, and no debate about valuation.

    That being the case OGOG need 75% of the votes of the minority shareholders actually voting on the day. In the top 20 I can identify possibly 20% of votes from shareholders who are likely to vote no, and will certainly be contacting those parties. (Digger, I have you in my sights once again.) I am aware that Andrew Jeffries has contacted at least one of the minority shareholders in the top 20.

    If contributors on this site who are against accepting the offer express their feelings by voting then there is a chance the scheme of arrangement will fail.

    My question is - do we need to consider forming a united group of some sort? Opinions appreciated.

  4. #15994
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    1,400

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnPagani View Post
    Nice try but my interests are the same as any other shareholder since you asked. Not only that, any interest in the transaction must be fully disclosed in the booklet, which will be sent to everyone. As I said earlier in the week, the answers to questions about valuations and all interests associated with the transaction will all be disclosed. No one has anything to hide and the reasons the directors feel their recommendation is correct will all be set out. It's always good to hold boards to account, and debate viewpoints, and the regulatory process expects you will find the information coming your way useful in informing the debate.

    You will note it is also a court-supervised process, which provides protection that everyone is treated fairly.
    Thank you for that reply john-we should all await the booklet before making judgements
    I must call you out on the first sentence because I like to know the truth. I cannot see how a NZO employee can have the same interest as any shareholder.
    You are far more likely to be aligned more with the interests of the majority shareholder and that of NZO employees. In this case minority shareholders are the target as enshrined in company law and as you say are protected by the regulatory process.
    The companies act has provision for the rights of minority shareholders and if appropriate we will use these provisions

    However it would be preferred if co-operation to get a good outcome for all parties is used rather than conflict and the initial offer is manifestly inadequate

  5. #15995
    Update Ready To Install
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Floating Anchor Shoals
    Posts
    7,948

    Default

    Yes what financial interest, bonus etc will you and others gain from this attempted sale if it does go ahead, in the interests of transparency you claim to be.Thank you.

  6. #15996
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Auckland, , New Zealand.
    Posts
    98

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnPagani View Post
    You will note it is also a court-supervised process, which provides protection that everyone is treated fairly.
    The court-supervised process has nothing to do with seeing that everyone is treated fairly. It's role is to ensure the process is followed, which has nothing to do with pricing or valuation which are the real concerns.

  7. #15997
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnPagani View Post
    Nice try but my interests are the same as any other shareholder since you asked. Not only that, any interest in the transaction must be fully disclosed in the booklet, which will be sent to everyone. As I said earlier in the week, the answers to questions about valuations and all interests associated with the transaction will all be disclosed. No one has anything to hide and the reasons the directors feel their recommendation is correct will all be set out. It's always good to hold boards to account, and debate viewpoints, and the regulatory process expects you will find the information coming your way useful in informing the debate.

    You will note it is also a court-supervised process, which provides protection that everyone is treated fairly.
    Thank you for your input John, and I accept that we have not seen or reviewed the information related to the valuations and all interests associated with the transaction that will be disclosed.

    However, here is a very simplified example that may help NZO and OGOG see the matter from the shareholders point of view:

    Let's assume you have a home worth say $1,000,000 and I tell you I want to purchase your home for $750,000 because that's the figure a valuer I chose came up with, and the purchase price also includes all your contents and the cars in the garage, would you not feel a little hard done by?

  8. #15998
    Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    1,958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    Digger now that you are a member-I stopped my subscription after the TTP takeover as I didn't get practical help-can you find out what happens if they don't get 90%.
    Don't forget to check your private messages
    The PPP thing was Australian so I can not see how that applies to an NZ company
    digger

  9. #15999
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    1,400

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by digger View Post
    The PPP thing was Australian so I can not see how that applies to an NZ company
    The 90% was Sea taking over TTP-transtasman properties.
    This looks as if it was changed to 75% in 2014 so we are all getting confused

  10. #16000
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CD_CHCH View Post
    However, here is a very simplified example that may help NZO and OGOG see the matter from the shareholders point of view:

    Let's assume you have a home worth say $1,000,000 and I tell you I want to purchase your home for $750,000 because that's the figure a valuer I chose came up with, and the purchase price also includes all your contents and the cars in the garage, would you not feel a little hard done by?
    Yes indeed!

    And in addition to existing assets worth $1M, planning is underway to build a new Decile 10 school (Ironbark) nearby which, if built, would certainly increase the value of the property significantly.

  11. #16001
    ***Verified NZOG Employee***
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    Yes what financial interest, bonus etc will you and others gain from this attempted sale if it does go ahead, in the interests of transparency you claim to be.Thank you.
    All my interests have to be disclosed in the booklet. I hold a small number of ordinary shares. I can only trade with permission in times when there is no inside information (e.g. right after we have declared results), so they are less liquid than yours. I also have some ESOP shares, which are out of the money - if the scheme goes ahead, the money I have paid towards them will be refunded. No other interest or bonus, although I deserve one for being awesome. I'll mention your recommendation to the boss.

  12. #16002
    ***Verified NZOG Employee***
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    Thank you for that reply john-we should all await the booklet before making judgements
    I must call you out on the first sentence because I like to know the truth. I cannot see how a NZO employee can have the same interest as any shareholder.
    You are far more likely to be aligned more with the interests of the majority shareholder and that of NZO employees. In this case minority shareholders are the target as enshrined in company law and as you say are protected by the regulatory process.
    The companies act has provision for the rights of minority shareholders and if appropriate we will use these provisions

    However it would be preferred if co-operation to get a good outcome for all parties is used rather than conflict and the initial offer is manifestly inadequate
    I see what you mean. I was referring to financial interests along the lines of bonuses etc, as that seemed to be the nature of the question. Naturally, I have an interest as an employee and your humble and obedient servant.

  13. #16003
    ***Verified NZOG Employee***
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    51

    Default

    I can't get into debating valuations with you, but at the theoretical level, the issue at stake is what you mean by 'worth $1,000,000'. (Do live in Auckland??) My house could be worth what someone will pay for it, what it cost me depreciated, what it will earn me in rents, or what I could sell the pieces for. All of those, for any asset, will have a different valuation. That's why the independent valuation will have a range. Naturally, if I am seller, I will walk around my house pointing out that the tiles cost me $20,000, the kitchen was $100,000, the new school is going to increase prices for land in the area, and so on. And if I'm a buyer I'm going to point out that I have to pay very high heating and rates bills and we are having trouble letting it to reliable tenants. If no one else was likely to be a buyer in the area, then as a house seller, I would expect the agent to present an offer that reflected what the valuer said. It is entirely appropriate for you to look at that valuation then and decide if you want to accept it, hold out for a better one, hope the rental market increases or advocate for a sale of the pieces - that's very much a decision for you and not one I am going to have a view on.

  14. #16004
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    396

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnPagani View Post
    I can't get into debating valuations with you, but at the theoretical level, the issue at stake is what you mean by 'worth $1,000,000'. (Do live in Auckland??) My house could be worth what someone will pay for it, what it cost me depreciated, what it will earn me in rents, or what I could sell the pieces for. All of those, for any asset, will have a different valuation. That's why the independent valuation will have a range. Naturally, if I am seller, I will walk around my house pointing out that the tiles cost me $20,000, the kitchen was $100,000, the new school is going to increase prices for land in the area, and so on. And if I'm a buyer I'm going to point out that I have to pay very high heating and rates bills and we are having trouble letting it to reliable tenants. If no one else was likely to be a buyer in the area, then as a house seller, I would expect the agent to present an offer that reflected what the valuer said. It is entirely appropriate for you to look at that valuation then and decide if you want to accept it, hold out for a better one, hope the rental market increases or advocate for a sale of the pieces - that's very much a decision for you and not one I am going to have a view on.
    Thank you for the timely lesson in valuations John. I wish I had come to you earlier rather than wasting my money buying all of those investing books 😜

    You can pick holes in the instructive analogy, however one can objectively value the existing NZOG assets by simply looking at Book Value (unless you are trying to tell me that the books have been cooked all these years and the assets recorded are worth nothing like what has been stated?).

    Book Value is not perfect, but in our case rising oil prices probably make it near enough. It does not include any speculative value for a theoretical strike in ironbark or any of the others.

    We can’t effectively compute Owner Earnings and complete a DCF because a significant chunk of assets are tied up in cash. So current earnings are not a true reflection of earning power. Hence, we must default to Book Value right now (regrettably).

    Maybe here is a better ‘housing’ analogy for you.

    You own a small rental property that produces just enough income to cover rates, maintenance, depreciation etc.

    Underneath the floorboards, you have stashed $85,000 in cold, hard cash. I come to you, point out all of the flaws I perceive in your property...how much harder the Labour government has made it to be a Landlord...and then reassure you that you should accept my $100,000 offer because a valuation I commissioned says the house is only worth that. Rest assured, I tell you, the valuation is independent! And just last week similar properties in your area were selling for 25% less anyway!

    You just have to leave right now and leave the tenants, all contents (including the cash) etc where it is.

    Would you gladly take that deal John?
    Last edited by mistaTea; 12-07-2019 at 05:55 PM.

  15. #16005
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    346

    Default

    sooooooo,

    I suppose since the value of Cue has gone up substantially. Its re-valuation time.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •