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  1. #16001
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    Quote Originally Posted by fish View Post
    Thank you for that reply john-we should all await the booklet before making judgements
    I must call you out on the first sentence because I like to know the truth. I cannot see how a NZO employee can have the same interest as any shareholder.
    You are far more likely to be aligned more with the interests of the majority shareholder and that of NZO employees. In this case minority shareholders are the target as enshrined in company law and as you say are protected by the regulatory process.
    The companies act has provision for the rights of minority shareholders and if appropriate we will use these provisions

    However it would be preferred if co-operation to get a good outcome for all parties is used rather than conflict and the initial offer is manifestly inadequate
    I see what you mean. I was referring to financial interests along the lines of bonuses etc, as that seemed to be the nature of the question. Naturally, I have an interest as an employee and your humble and obedient servant.

  2. #16002
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    I can't get into debating valuations with you, but at the theoretical level, the issue at stake is what you mean by 'worth $1,000,000'. (Do live in Auckland??) My house could be worth what someone will pay for it, what it cost me depreciated, what it will earn me in rents, or what I could sell the pieces for. All of those, for any asset, will have a different valuation. That's why the independent valuation will have a range. Naturally, if I am seller, I will walk around my house pointing out that the tiles cost me $20,000, the kitchen was $100,000, the new school is going to increase prices for land in the area, and so on. And if I'm a buyer I'm going to point out that I have to pay very high heating and rates bills and we are having trouble letting it to reliable tenants. If no one else was likely to be a buyer in the area, then as a house seller, I would expect the agent to present an offer that reflected what the valuer said. It is entirely appropriate for you to look at that valuation then and decide if you want to accept it, hold out for a better one, hope the rental market increases or advocate for a sale of the pieces - that's very much a decision for you and not one I am going to have a view on.

  3. #16003
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnPagani View Post
    I can't get into debating valuations with you, but at the theoretical level, the issue at stake is what you mean by 'worth $1,000,000'. (Do live in Auckland??) My house could be worth what someone will pay for it, what it cost me depreciated, what it will earn me in rents, or what I could sell the pieces for. All of those, for any asset, will have a different valuation. That's why the independent valuation will have a range. Naturally, if I am seller, I will walk around my house pointing out that the tiles cost me $20,000, the kitchen was $100,000, the new school is going to increase prices for land in the area, and so on. And if I'm a buyer I'm going to point out that I have to pay very high heating and rates bills and we are having trouble letting it to reliable tenants. If no one else was likely to be a buyer in the area, then as a house seller, I would expect the agent to present an offer that reflected what the valuer said. It is entirely appropriate for you to look at that valuation then and decide if you want to accept it, hold out for a better one, hope the rental market increases or advocate for a sale of the pieces - that's very much a decision for you and not one I am going to have a view on.
    Thank you for the timely lesson in valuations John. I wish I had come to you earlier rather than wasting my money buying all of those investing books 😜

    You can pick holes in the instructive analogy, however one can objectively value the existing NZOG assets by simply looking at Book Value (unless you are trying to tell me that the books have been cooked all these years and the assets recorded are worth nothing like what has been stated?).

    Book Value is not perfect, but in our case rising oil prices probably make it near enough. It does not include any speculative value for a theoretical strike in ironbark or any of the others.

    We can’t effectively compute Owner Earnings and complete a DCF because a significant chunk of assets are tied up in cash. So current earnings are not a true reflection of earning power. Hence, we must default to Book Value right now (regrettably).

    Maybe here is a better ‘housing’ analogy for you.

    You own a small rental property that produces just enough income to cover rates, maintenance, depreciation etc.

    Underneath the floorboards, you have stashed $85,000 in cold, hard cash. I come to you, point out all of the flaws I perceive in your property...how much harder the Labour government has made it to be a Landlord...and then reassure you that you should accept my $100,000 offer because a valuation I commissioned says the house is only worth that. Rest assured, I tell you, the valuation is independent! And just last week similar properties in your area were selling for 25% less anyway!

    You just have to leave right now and leave the tenants, all contents (including the cash) etc where it is.

    Would you gladly take that deal John?
    Last edited by mistaTea; 12-07-2019 at 05:55 PM.

  4. #16004
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    sooooooo,

    I suppose since the value of Cue has gone up substantially. Its re-valuation time.

  5. #16005
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnPagani View Post
    Nice try but my interests are the same as any other shareholder since you asked. Not only that, any interest in the transaction must be fully disclosed in the booklet, which will be sent to everyone. As I said earlier in the week, the answers to questions about valuations and all interests associated with the transaction will all be disclosed. No one has anything to hide and the reasons the directors feel their recommendation is correct will all be set out. It's always good to hold boards to account, and debate viewpoints, and the regulatory process expects you will find the information coming your way useful in informing the debate.

    You will note it is also a court-supervised process, which provides protection that everyone is treated fairly.
    As NZO is sending out a booklet to all current holders you obvously have an up to date list of all addresses.I require that list so that a balanced view can be delivered.This is a formal request.Thanks in advance.
    digger

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger View Post
    As NZO is sending out a booklet to all current holders you obvously have an up to date list of all addresses.I require that list so that a balanced view can be delivered.This is a formal request.Thanks in advance.
    Good luck with that, have you heard of the Privacy Act?

    Seriously, I've a modest few of these and I have read the concerns of shareholders here which appear warranted and Mr Pagani's response which 'was' reasonable and measured imho, until he got sucked into responding to the analogies.

    Nevertheless I think shareholders would be best to wait until the full report is available and make an assessment at that time.

    Too much emotion here at the moment, it is quite possible the valuers found something material that undervalues the company, however unlikely that seems at present, on face value.

    Patience folks, shred the valuers report when it comes if it is as you suspect biased and sycophantic. But until then, reserve your opinions until you are fully informed.

    imho, flying off the handle now is not helpful to your well being.

  7. #16007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Good luck with that, have you heard of the Privacy Act?

    Seriously, I've a modest few of these and I have read the concerns of shareholders here which appear warranted and Mr Pagani's response which 'was' reasonable and measured imho, until he got sucked into responding to the analogies.

    Nevertheless I think shareholders would be best to wait until the full report is available and make an assessment at that time.

    Too much emotion here at the moment, it is quite possible the valuers found something material that undervalues the company, however unlikely that seems at present, on face value.

    Patience folks, shred the valuers report when it comes if it is as you suspect biased and sycophantic. But until then, reserve your opinions until you are fully informed.

    imho, flying off the handle now is not helpful to your well being.
    Agreed mate. Nobody should be ‘flying off the handle’ at this point. We must wait for the process to play out, review the valuation etc and assess the facts as they are presented.

    In the meantime, while we wait there will naturally be a large element of online chatter while we scratch our heads in anticipation of the booklet etc.

    People can vent their frustrations among fellow shareholders, whilst still adopting a pragmatic approach outside the online world while assessing the facts as they present 😎

  8. #16008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Good luck with that, have you heard of the Privacy Act?

    Seriously, I've a modest few of these and I have read the concerns of shareholders here which appear warranted and Mr Pagani's response which 'was' reasonable and measured imho, until he got sucked into responding to the analogies.

    Nevertheless I think shareholders would be best to wait until the full report is available and make an assessment at that time.

    Too much emotion here at the moment, it is quite possible the valuers found something material that undervalues the company, however unlikely that seems at present, on face value.

    Patience folks, shred the valuers report when it comes if it is as you suspect biased and sycophantic. But until then, reserve your opinions until you are fully informed.

    imho, flying off the handle now is not helpful to your well being.
    Sounds nice but but the booklet will give only OGOG side of the story.Propaganda works and if you can get it out quickly and suppress all other view points--well that is why propananda is so sucessful. Like you could ask, as John says there is nothing to hide ,why not in this booklet have a section opposing the director recommendation. Nothing but everything to hide.
    digger

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger View Post
    Sounds nice but but the booklet will give only OGOG side of the story.Propaganda works and if you can get it out quickly and suppress all other view points--well that is why propananda is so sucessful. Like you could ask, as John says there is nothing to hide ,why not in this booklet have a section opposing the director recommendation. Nothing but everything to hide.
    That can't be answered until the report is made available. You and some others have the wherewithal to decide whether the content of the report is credible. Until then, speculation as a shareholder on the value of the company and the basis of the offer made is just that, speculation.

    I probably have a great deal less exposure to this situation than some others so am less concerned, nevertheless I do not like losing money or being ripped off. But I do accept that until the valuers report is available, imho there is not much point in agonising over the offer as it stands.

    All that said, this industry (let alone this company) has a long history of ruthless leverage of investors interests, almost to the extent that the sector should be avoided in the public investment domain. Except for speculators who understand the risks.

    Hopefully it works out for shareholders, but I fear that we don't hold the cards, we are not the dealer at the table, we are the punters and the house statistically always wins.

    Let's see what the report says, then we can make some rational decisions where to from there.

  10. #16010
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    For me the chit-chat is really useful. Thanks to all the knowledgeable posters.
    Appreciated.
    Disc: 1% of my portfolio.

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