BLT - Blis Technologies

[xynz]

According to BLT, their K12 is being marketed in the US by Imagenetix:

This product is currently being sold through the giant US retailer [Costco]under the brand called BioGuard™ and was developed for the US market by the publicly-listed dietary supplement manufacturer, Imagenetix Inc. ..... According to Imagenetix the BLIS K12, in their BioGuard™ product was selected as the key active ingredient for their product.....

Imagenetix isn't doing so well:

http://bit.ly/3IGAc0

The only reason why they turned a profit in 2009, is because they got a USD1.75 million settlement from a trademark infringement lawsuit, where they claimed USD$2.75 BILLION in damages:

http://bit.ly/1AKXlL

This settlement is listed in the "Total Other Income" entry for 2009:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=IAGX.OB&annual



Disclosure: Holding 10K BLT

[emearg]

According to BLT, their K12 is being marketed in the US by Imagenetix:

I think you need to re-read the annoucement?

The product was developed by Imagenetix.

They are a dietary supplement manufacturer. Based on Barry's words in the ODT it seems very reasonable to think they are also manufacturing the finished product for Costco on a ongoing basis.

There is no mention of them conducting any marketing for BioGuard in the Blis annoucement nor on Imagenetix's website.

Costco are the ones selling the product and running the marketing programme.

Or have I missed something?

[xynz]

I think you need to re-read the annoucement?

The product was developed by Imagenetix.

They are a dietary supplement manufacturer. Based on Barry's words in the ODT it seems very reasonable to think they are also manufacturing the finished product for Costco on a ongoing basis.

There is no mention of them conducting any marketing for BioGuard in the Blis annoucement nor on Imagenetix's website.

Costco are the ones selling the product and running the marketing programme.

Or have I missed something?

In the US, when a company is putting a product out into the market, then they are said to be "marketing that product". Imagenetix will be producing Biogard with K12 in it; they will also putting it out into the market (marketing it):

According to Imagenetix the BLIS K12, in their BioGuard™ product

In the US sense, Imagenetix will be marketing BioGuard along with their other products:

http://www.imagenetix.net/


Costco is one of many large US warehouse retailers (like BJs and Sam's Club). Costco is NOT like the Warehouse in NZ. They don't advertise on TV. The only promotional campaigns run by Costco are periodic releases of discount coupon books like these:

http://bit.ly/2SsvGN

In the advertising sense, Costco is not going to be "marketing" Bioguard. Costco will simply be stocking Biogard in the same section of its stores where it sells vitamins, toiletries and other over the counter cold remedies (from other manufacturers).

In that section of its store, Costco might put up a poster to inform its customers of the new Bioguard item and it might include BioGuard in one of its discount coupon books....but that will be the extent of Costco's "marketing" of Bioguard (in the advertising sense). If Costco were planning to sell Bioguard under its Kirkland brand, then I think we would have heard about it.

On the basis of the data that I've cited from yahoo finance, in the BLT->Imagenetix->Costco->market chain, Imagenetix seems to be a very weak link (IMHO). If Imagenetix goes under, then Bioguard will disappear from the Costco shelves.

Disclosure: holding 10K BLT

[simla]

I saw the state of Imagenetix at the time we found Bioguard. But they did not sound on the ropes to me, just small and upcoming: http://www.imagenetix.net/investors_summary.php, which is still not the same as big and secure though. And in the news release on their site describing Bioguard, http://www.imagenetix.net/articles/2009/004_09.php, they also say, "InflameAway Celadrin® extra strength soft gels for joint health are currently available at the nation's number one drug chain, the number one and number two supermarket stores and the number one club warehouse store".

Your point about marketing is a good one. However, we know that a half-page ad for Bioguard was on page 4 of the October Costco Connection magazine, http://www.costcoconnection.com/connection/200910#pg7 , which presumably is one of Costco's main marketing tools. Costco must do some promotion or they would go out of business. I wonder who paid for that ad - at least someone did. It will be interesting to see the November edition. Also, there is perhaps not the same need to promote something when millions of people are going to come to the store and see it anyway, which is perhaps the main way Costco expect people to buy their products in general?

It's a good point though, Xynz. My main source of confidence on this is that Blis have a good track record of picking partners so far, and probably Blis have a backup plan too. Time will tell, as usual with Blis.

[xynz]

I saw the state of Imagenetix at the time we found Bioguard. But they did not sound on the ropes to me, just small and upcoming:......"InflameAway Celadrin® extra strength soft gels for joint health are currently available at the nation's number one drug chain, the number one and number two supermarket stores and the number one club warehouse store".

Which means that their cash flow is bad, in spite of the fact that one of their flagship products is already being marketed in "the nation's number one drug chain, the number one and number two supermarket[s] .....".

Your point about marketing is a good one. However, we know that a half-page ad for Bioguard was on page 4 of the October Costco Connection magazine, http://www.costcoconnection.com/connection/200910#pg7 , which presumably is one of Costco's main marketing tools. Costco must do some promotion or they would go out of business.

When I was living in the US, I saw plenty of the Costco coupon books, but this is the first time I've heard of their Connection magazine. Thanks for the tip. From my personal experience with other Costco shoppers in the US: the coupon book, word of mouth and "grazing" through the store were the main reasons why Costco shoppers tried new products. An admittedly small sample; but personal experience with the companies involved is an invaluable addition to share market research.

I wonder who paid for that ad - at least someone did.

That is a very good and relevant question.

It will be interesting to see the November edition.

When it comes out, will you please post a link here?

Also, there is perhaps not the same need to promote something when millions of people are going to come to the store and see it anyway, which is perhaps the main way Costco expect people to buy their products in general?

As I alluded to above, that is precisely the way most products are "marketed" at Costco. Essentially, the effectiveness of Bioguard and its perceived value at its price point will be the impetus for any word of mouth campaign in its favor. IF it starts flying off the shelves, then Costco will take notice and expand its availability (and their minimal promotion).

It's a good point though, Xynz. My main source of confidence on this is that Blis have a good track record of picking partners so far, and probably Blis have a backup plan too. Time will tell, as usual with Blis.

Thanks. Costco as a real partner would have been a huge coup for Blis. Imagenetix? Not so much (IMHO).

Disclosure: Holding 10K BLT

[simla]

Xynz, it's great to have someone with first hand experience of Costco to tell us how it works. Thanks.

(And anyone else with personal experience: I'm still trying to work out what the name Epoca (or Epoka) means to a Japanese person - is it perhaps in Romaji, the spelling of Japanese in English characters?)

The Costco Connection magazine appears to be 2 monthly, so we may have to wait till December perhaps. Here's a bit of a review though (Feb 09): http://www.terrella.com/2009/02/02/c...co-connection/

"As a long-time Costco member, I’m well-acquainted with The Costco Connection, Costco’s brand community publication with print distribution of more than 5 million (and a website)." ... "With a colorful, jam-packed format, The Costco Connection engages members with lively content while at the same time it unleashes a barrage of product placements, advertisements, and customer service pages (such as listings of Costco gas station locations). This approach certainly reflects the Costco brand, which exudes an enthusiastic but utilitarian consumerism that shouts: “Do NOT leave the warehouse without spending at least $200!” ... "The Costco Connection goes a long way in achieving the potential of brand community media. It’s a fine publication. But in the continuum from brand-focused to consumer-focused content, it falls somewhere in the middle and as such it leaves some marketing value on the table. Considering the vast number of copies it distributes, Costco selects its editorial content for broad appeal and easy reading. This makes it a quick read, and for me personally, less engaging than it could be. Still, I wouldn’t change a thing about The Costco Connection! As a flagship promotional vehicle, it works."

And Imagenetix may just be using their cash, rather like Blis, rather than not having enough. The same page that announced Bioguard there, said this: http://www.imagenetix.net/articles/2009/004_09.php

"Going forward, Imagenetix plans to expand its current successful 15 and 30 second television ad spots for InflameAway Celadrin® to national audiences via cable as its primary driver of retail turnover. Starting August 10th, InflameAway Celadrin® can be seen on networks such as FOX News, CNN, USA and Hallmark. The spots will emphasize the theme of InflameAway Celadrin® being "6x Faster and More Effective" than Glucosamine and Chondroitin in promoting joint health. The campaign will also include compelling "actual user" testimonials as further evidence of brand performance and efficacy. This consumer campaign is intended to position InflameAway Celadrin® for rapid acceptance during the balance of this year and into 2010 - with the goal of obtaining loyal advocates of InflameAway Celadrin®. Repeat customers, product compliance and beneficial results are core strengths of the InflameAway Celadrin® brand."

Will they take the same approach to Bioguard? They do seem to know a bit about marketing.

(For those interested in Celadrin - I know nothing of it's effectiveness, just mentioning it, not recommending it - it is for sale in NZ on the web )

Good point that Costco would be a better/bigger Blis partner, but I'm not entirely sure that we know exactly how much they are or are not involved in this deal. They must have at least cooperated with it.

And, when you say, "IF it starts flying off the shelves, then Costco will take notice and expand its availability (and their minimal promotion)." - maybe, just maybe, that is what has happened in Costco bringing the Bioguard review forward to expand to 400 stores??

But thanks, Xynz, all good discussion. I cannot possibly judge Imagenetix personally, of course, but time (again!) will tell how they work out for Blis.

[emearg]

Thanks Xynz for educating me on the way the lingo is used and how things are done in the States.

Having done a little investigation on the web I see the bioguardhealth.com is in fact run by Imagenetix and not Costco as I originally thought. For anybody interested in seeing how the website is doing, here is a data file from their webserver:

http://bioguardhealth.com/awstats/da...health.com.txt

Being a small company I am sure Imagenetix are mighty motivated to see that BioGuard is a success.

If Imagenetix falls over that won't be great, but this is always a risk, even with the largest players.

http://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/BLT/...2-October-2009 shows we will be getting the first preference shares dividend payment paid in cash on the 13th of November.

[emearg]

Costco is one of many large US warehouse retailers (like BJs and Sam's Club). Costco is NOT like the Warehouse in NZ. They don't advertise on TV. The only promotional campaigns run by Costco are periodic releases of discount coupon books like these:

http://bit.ly/2SsvGN

In the advertising sense, Costco is not going to be "marketing" Bioguard. Costco will simply be stocking Biogard in the same section of its stores where it sells vitamins, toiletries and other over the counter cold remedies (from other manufacturers).

In that section of its store, Costco might put up a poster to inform its customers of the new Bioguard item and it might include BioGuard in one of its discount coupon books....but that will be the extent of Costco's "marketing" of Bioguard (in the advertising sense). If Costco were planning to sell Bioguard under its Kirkland brand, then I think we would have heard about it.

I created a Costco account a couple of weeks ago hoping to order some BioGuard (but they don't seem to ship to NZ) and ever since I have been receiving emails most, if not all days marketing various products.

Today's email, as chance would have it, includes a photo (the one that has the BioGuard product in it and the text 'Ideal for Work, School and Traver - Boost your Immune System') and the following text:
BioGuard™ Advanced Probiotic Protection Clinically Proven $18.99

Clicking on it takes you to the product page on the Costco website...

[simla]

Very proactive, Emearg. However, your experiment also raises the possibility that many of their members may be no more serious than you!

We thought the last announcement was good, but interesting that the market does not seem to have reacted that way this week. Are we letting our optimism get the upper hand a bit since the share price rose so much after the July announcement? Perhaps we've subconsciously taken that on board as more "news" too, whereas those buyers know no more than what Blis has announced. The news we are hearing seems good, but we also know that Blis is undertaking a huge project in total, with a long way to travel yet.

It is likely 5 weeks to the half year result now. As I've remarked any number of times in the past, the Blis share price means nothing until it is finally underpinned by reliable profit. And, as I've also remarked a few times, I personally expect speculators may dominate the share price for a while too, both ups and downs. We may have to wait for the regular dividend phase to really find out what Blis is worth, and that may be a while yet!

Still, the Blis share has never been a sure thing before, and that's what makes it interesting. The day Blis finally seems like a predictable share will probably take all the fun out of it for us.

[emearg]

Very proactive, Emearg. However, your experiment also raises the possibility that many of their members may be no more serious than you!

Why do you think I wasn't serious? I joined up so I could order BioGuard only to find that they don't ship to NZ. Otherwise I would now be one of their customers...

I suspect if you were to dig, Costco may produce figures around the number of active buyers versus email recipients in much the same way Telecom reports on the number of active mobiles versus glovebox mobiles (or at least they used to back in the day when I held TEL shares)

We thought the last announcement was good, but interesting that the market does not seem to have reacted that way this week. Are we letting our optimism get the upper hand a bit since the share price rose so much after the July announcement? Perhaps we've subconsciously taken that on board as more "news" too, whereas those buyers know no more than what Blis has announced. The news we are hearing seems good, but we also know that Blis is undertaking a huge project in total, with a long way to travel yet.

Actually I thought the share would fall back considerably this week but it managed to hang in there. I think we can afford to be optimist that Blis is on the right track but exactly how far up the track they have gotten is very hard to gauge without some figures.

It is likely 5 weeks to the half year result now. As I've remarked any number of times in the past, the Blis share price means nothing until it is finally underpinned by reliable profit. And, as I've also remarked a few times, I personally expect speculators may dominate the share price for a while too, both ups and downs. We may have to wait for the regular dividend phase to really find out what Blis is worth, and that may be a while yet!

Profit? I want their growth potential to be clearly demonstrate by the figures! I reckon that will drive the share price higher much more effectively than a small repeatable profit.

Still, the Blis share has never been a sure thing before, and that's what makes it interesting. The day Blis finally seems like a predictable share will probably take all the fun out of it for us.

Fun? This is serious stuff my thread friend! Personally I am active on this thread, and do a lot of research of Blis because the market analysts don't bother with Blis, and the media are pretty useless with small companies like Blis and don't report much beyond company press releases.

Actually I will be very happy to have the fun taken out of this if that means the share goes over $1. I will then find other ways to have fun :-)

xynz's post last week made me think it may not just be Costco selling BioGuard. I have found that Quick2you.com are also selling it, and for $29.99 (Costco is $18.99)

If you want some here is the link:
http://www.quick2you.com/store/index...ails&piid=1250

It seems likely this product will become more widely available on the net in the coming weeks/months which I can only see as positive.