FIF Tax Regime - Any Spreadsheets?

[Lizard]

Yesterday, I started on a spreadsheet which would give Fair Dividend Rate and Comparative Value tax calculations for holdings which come under the FIF tax regime...

I started with my simplest portfolio, but after realising how much data I would still need to enter and my table had grown to about 30 columns and 50 rows... I decided that maybe it would be simplest to just pay on FDR - particularly for the non-trading portfolio which doesn't have any quick sales.

Maybe I am making it too complicated. Just wondering how everyone else is getting along?

[Lizard]

Okay, well I've just completed the first portfolio (FIF regime tax only so far - the rest should be easier). The portfolio held 11 non-exempt shares through the entire year, made 13 transactions and no quick sales.

In order to get enough data to calculate taxable income under both the comparative value and fair dividend rate methods, I needed to find and enter an estimated 310 pieces of data including all quantities, values, dates, exchange rates and dividends.

Was it worth it? Hmm.

[OldRider]

Lizard:
I have qualms myself about what will be necessary to complete this years tax return, the thought of coping myself didn't seem to be a good idea, as you seem to have
illustrated. What the accountant's fees might be to do the job for me, with Pie's, Australian shares in and out of indexes, plus British Investment trusts I shudder to think,
but am prepared for a doubling, perhaps tripling or more.

Small wonder that our productivity as a nation declines year by year, if this small area is the norm across the business world. I had thought in retirement life was going to be simpler,

[Snapper]

Why don't you just use the FIF calculator on the IRD website? Go to http://www.ird.govt.nz/calculators/keyword/incometax/ and click on Foreign Investment Fund Calculator.

[Snoopy]

Why don't you just use the FIF calculator on the IRD website? Go to http://www.ird.govt.nz/calculators/keyword/incometax/ and click on Foreign Investment Fund Calculator.

I was going to mention that Snapper. However, have you actually used the IRD calculator?

I threw a few numbers into it last week. Unfortunately I couldn't see anywhere to put in my dividend information. Under the FIF regime 'comparative value' method you are meant to treat capital appreciation/depreciation and dividends in the same breath so that you can calculate your 'total return' for the year. Dividends are not taxed separately under the FIF regime.

With no way of inputting dividend information, this calculator is going to give taxpayers the wrong 'deemed income' information. Returns compiled using the IRD calculator may well be in breach of the Income Tax Act 2006 amendments. It seems to me utterly unbelievable that the IRDs own website could be so badly misleading. I left the IRD website last week thinking *I* must have got it wrong. I am hoping that someone on this website can prove me to be the fool. But don't take my word for it. Take a look at for yourselves and see what you think.

SNOOPY

[Lizard]

I have tried using the IRD calculator - the same information still has to be input, but it is much slower to enter in this format and can't go back and make corrections easily or see what has gone in while in process.

Dividends can be entered, but from memory you have to put them in as another transaction and select from transaction type.

Unfortunately the web-site adds no value over and above a correctly built spreadsheet. It would be useful if it drew down data from a database such as exchange rates, dividends and closing prices for shares held the entire year. As it stood when I looked, it couldn't even identify if you put in an exempt share code.

In the end, creating the spreadsheet will mean I can use it to log transactions as they occur during the year and avoid the crunch at year end.

Also, I'm not sure what happens to your IRD calcs if the power or internet goes down during process - it would probably take most people a few hours to locate and enter all data.

The trouble with relying on the accountant is that they are really going to be reliant on you to provide most of the info anyway (barring perhaps exchange rates).

If anybody who is Excel capable wants a non-guaranteed copy of my spreadsheet as a starting point for their own spreadsheet, then feel free to PM me with an e-mail address. Be patient though. It might take a few days to double check and produce a "template" version (i.e. without all my data!).

[Snapper]

I was going to mention that Snapper. However, have you actually used the IRD calculator?

I threw a few numbers into it last week. Unfortunately I couldn't see anywhere to put in my dividend information. Under the FIF regime 'comparative value' method you are meant to treat capital appreciation/depreciation and dividends in the same breath so that you can calculate your 'total return' for the year. Dividends are not taxed separately under the FIF regime.

With no way of inputting dividend information, this calculator is going to give taxpayers the wrong 'deemed income' information. Returns compiled using the IRD calculator may well be in breach of the Income Tax Act 2006 amendments. It seems to me utterly unbelievable that the IRDs own website could be so badly misleading. I left the IRD website last week thinking *I* must have got it wrong. I am hoping that someone on this website can prove me to be the fool. But don't take my word for it. Take a look at for yourselves and see what you think.

SNOOPY

No, I haven't used it yet. I just assumed that since it was on the IRD website it would be OK. Silly me!

[Lizard]

I am hoping that someone on this website can prove me to be the fool. But don't take my word for it. Take a look at for yourselves and see what you think.

Hi Snoopy,

Just checked again. Dividends are there. However, you have to allow 1 transaction for every dividend received when the calculator asks you how many transactions. If you don't allow any, then you won't see the toolbar you need to enter them.

After you've entered the transaction number, then you need to select "gross dividend" from the drop down menu under transaction type.

(You aren't a fool though - it's not very obvious is it? Especially for people that don't make many transactions!)

Cheers, Liz

[Snoopy]

Hi Snoopy,

Just checked again. Dividends are there. However, you have to allow 1 transaction for every dividend received when the calculator asks you how many transactions. If you don't allow any, then you won't see the toolbar you need to enter them.

After you've entered the transaction number, then you need to select "gross dividend" from the drop down menu under transaction type.

(You aren't a fool though - it's not very obvious is it? Especially for people that don't make many transactions!)

Cheers, Liz

OK, thanks Lizard. I am quite happy to be proved the fool this time. I certainly never saw that drop down menu. Because I didn't do any buying or selling during the year I just assumed I had done no transactions- silly me! I am still have difficulty getting my head around just doing nothing and receiving a dividend as equivalent to 'making a transaction'. This mixing up of the dividend account and capital account has yet to be hard wired into my brain.

I had intended to avoid this whole FIF thing and sell down my overseas positions to under the threshhold. I did get around top selling down much of the dross, and to that end I have Cullen and Dunne to thank. However, I failed to get my total holdings under the threshold by the due date (it's a long story). Then faced with being subject to the Cullen Dunne tax I suddenly thought: "What am I doing letting these two guys dictate my global investment policy."

I had been subject to the old FIF regime anyway, so it wasn't a huge leap of culture for me to have to dovetail inside the new one.

SNOOPY

[777]

I see that the guide that arrived with my IR3 does not give much assistance in what is to be included as FDR liable income. Still it is better than the guide that arrived with my Trust return which was a repeat of last years and therefore out of date.

Has anyone worked out how they will handle a Macquarrie CMT account. Macquarrie sent out a letter saying it would be FDR liable for 2007/2008 but not for 2008/2009. However if you look at the IRD website (TIB's), they say that the exemption applies for the 2007/2008 year.

If anyone has Titan Trusts out there, are you going to include them or rely on the ruling the IRD gave them when they were established?