Airlines r a great public service, endorsed by Skol.

[The Big Ease]

this is quite funny now.
oil stocks arent doing so well, but in the medium term they will bounce back strongly.

over the long run, the track records of the oil and airline industries is quite clear.
though there will always be companies in both that will go against their industry trend and short-term performance divergence, you should note which companies are the most profitable in the world.

they arent airlines!
skol, i assume you have some great industry knowledge going by your time spent in that industry. as such, you would be at a distinct advantage over the average punter. for most investors airlines will prove to be a dud investment.

good luck utilising your industry knowledge though.
you will need it when oil bounces back hard....its the long term trend you know

[Skol]

QAN might be worth a punt, heard that the A380 is doing well with airlines that own it.

[AMR]

I hope you don't mind me asking you Skol, but were you with Air NZ back when they had to fold Ansett? Were there any changes to the company noticeable by the staff before Ansett went under?

[tricha]

this is quite funny now.
oil stocks arent doing so well, but in the medium term they will bounce back strongly.

over the long run, the track records of the oil and airline industries is quite clear.
though there will always be companies in both that will go against their industry trend and short-term performance divergence, you should note which companies are the most profitable in the world.

they arent airlines!
skol, i assume you have some great industry knowledge going by your time spent in that industry. as such, you would be at a distinct advantage over the average punter. for most investors airlines will prove to be a dud investment.

good luck utilising your industry knowledge though.
you will need it when oil bounces back hard....its the long term trend you know

Hmm doggy,

ComCom acts over alleged air cargo cartel

Monday December 15, 11:48 AM
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The Commerce Commission is taking legal action against 13 airlines, including Air New Zealand, and seven airline staff for "extensive and long-term cartel activity in the air cargo market".
Among the other airlines involved are British Airways, Cathay Pacific Airways, Qantas Airways and United Airlines.
Today commission chairwoman Paula Rebstock said that the alleged collusion to impose additional charges would have caused extensive harm to the New Zealand economy.
The commission alleges that airlines throughout the world colluded to raise the price of freighting cargo by imposing fuel surcharges for more than seven years.
That affected the price of cargo both into and out of New Zealand, the commission said.
It was today initiating legal proceedings in the High Court at Auckland.
It is alleged that airlines first entered into an illegal global agreement in 1999/2000 under the auspices of the trade organisation International Air Transport Association (Iata). The airlines imposed the fuel surcharges between 2000 and 2006.
The allegations also involve a series of regional price fixing agreements. In addition, the commission alleges that a number of airlines conspired to price fix through imposition of a security surcharge immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
The commission said that although the case potentially involved 60 airlines and a great number of individuals throughout the world, it had focused on those airlines which had the greatest impact on New Zealand as well as the most culpable individuals.
All the individuals named in the proceedings were managers holding positions of responsibility and were allegedly actively involved in promoting the conspiracy and/or they were allegedly in a position to stop the conduct and deliberately refrained from doing so.
Some airlines were cooperating with the commission and an early resolution may be possible in some cases, the commission said.
Airlines earned more than an estimated $400 million each year transporting air cargo to and from New Zealand, and during the more than seven years the agreement was in place the total revenue was about $2.9 billion.
Ms Rebstock said the airlines were under similar scrutiny by other competition authorities around the world including the US Department of Justice, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and the European Commission.
"The commission will continue to work with its international counterparts in the drive to stamp out this conduct," she said.
New Zealand was a long way from its overseas markets and so the harm to this country's economy and its ability to compete internationally would have been disproportionately greater than in other jurisdictions in which the conduct took place.
Many New Zealand businesses and every consumer would have been directly affected by the increased air freight costs over many years. It would have resulted in increased costs for exporters and importers and higher overall prices for many consumer goods, Ms Rebstock said.
Participation in cartel activity was internationally regarded as one of the most egregious forms of anti-competitive behaviour.
"Cartels have grown on a worldwide basis and often operate at a global level," she said.
"Cartels are insidious. They are difficult to detect and extremely difficult to investigate because of their secretive and international nature."
The other airlines the commission is filing proceedings against are Cargolux International Airlines, Emirates, PT Garuda Indonesia, Japan Airlines International Co, Korean Airlines Co, Malaysian Airline System Berhad, Singapore Airlines Cargo Pte and Singapore Airlines, and Thai Airways International Public Company.

[BRICKS]

QAN might be worth a punt, heard that the A380 is doing well with airlines that own it.

QAN has two A380 now and a third on the 27th DEC so 2 go to USA 1 to GB just means they have more seats with less customers lucky the price of Fuel has come DOWN..

[upside_umop]

I think you'll find qantas is in an unlucky fuel hedging arrangement....

[BRICKS]

I think you'll find qantas is in an unlucky fuel hedging arrangement....

Hedging don't last forever and oil is FALLING..

[Skol]

I think you'll find qantas is in an unlucky fuel hedging arrangement....

Lots of airlines are Southwest particularly. Many of them made money on the way up, lose it on the way down.

[BRICKS]

QAN has two A380 now and a third on the 27th DEC so 2 go to USA 1 to GB just means they have more seats with less customers lucky the price of Fuel has come DOWN..

QANTAS will soon have 3 jumbos that they never had before that's what i was saying
don't want to hear about fuel this is a new time for the Q wonder how they will react
to new METHODS..

[tricha]

Hedging don't last forever and oil is FALLING..

Great time to buy airline stocks, when everyone is tal king them down


Aviation markets hit hard as financial crisis spreads






Steve Creedy, Aviation writer | December 24, 2008

Article from: The Australian
THE financial meltdown is expected to batter aviation markets for as long as three years, with global air travel projections for 2010 now 10 per cent below pre-crisis forecasts.
With recession now forecast for North America, Japan and Europe, the International Air Transport Association is predicting global passenger traffic will fall by 3 per cent next year.
But it expects the fallout from the global financial crisis to last much longer.
"Weakness in travel markets has lasted three years in previous recessions," IATA says in its latest economic briefing. "We do not expect a return to traffic growth above 4 per cent until 2011.
"Economic forecasts imply that airline traffic will remain below the previous trend over the medium term, with passenger travel forecast to be 9 per cent lower by 2016 than pre-crisis industry forecasts." IATA also predicts that cargo freight will shrink next year, but anticipates a more rapid recovery in this area and a return to 6 per cent growth by 2010.
But freight tonnages that year are still expected to be 13 per cent lower than pre-crisis forecasts.
IATA expects load factors -- the percentage of seats filled by paying passengers -- to hold up much better than in the past because airlines have already started to cut capacity.
But it says there is little to suggest the rising load factors will lead to better yields.
"Yields have typically fallen during recessions, but this seems to have been driven more by falling costs than falling load factors. Competition keeps fares and freight rates close to costs at all times during the cycle," it says.
The IATA prediction comes as preliminary 2008 traffic figures released on Friday by another international aviation organisation, the UN-based International Civil Aviation Organisation, showed a significant drop in growth.
The ICAO figures showed traffic rose by just 1.8 per cent over 2007 and the number of passengers carried on airlines increased by just 0.8 per cent to 2.29 billion.
Cargo statistics also indicated a marginal growth in 2008 of around 1.1 per cent over 2007. This marked a sharp decrease compared with the 3.9 per cent growth in 2007.
The figures are also being reflected in some local statistics.
Sydney Airport's November traffic figures -- the latest available to date -- showed a 5.5 per cent fall in international traffic and a 1 per cent decrease in domestic figures.
While airlines are saying domestic passenger numbers are holding up over Christmas, Qantas has reported that its international traffic is suffering.
The airline's October figures showed international passenger numbers were down by 7 per cent on the previous year and the percentage of seats filled on overseas flights fell 2.4 per cent.