RYM - Ryman Healthcare

[percy]

With the greatest respect mate its not about staff training and systems. If you're paying people $16 an hour who work really hard and they need circa $18.30 an hour, (the recognised minimum liveable wage) to live with a modicum of some level of dignity. RYM make money by paying a substantial percentage of their staff at a rate where those staff have to live in poverty. Sorry if this unpalatable fact makes shareholders feel slightly uncomfortable. If they paid people properly they wouldn't have to spend so much on staff training as staff churn would be much lower. As the unquestionable market leader in this sector they definitely have a role to play and this role will place further pressure on costs.

The other aspect of this latest result that hasn't gone unnoticed, is yet again we have a low quality result in that there's basically an inconsequential amount of tax being paid. How long can this corporate get away with escaping its tax obligations remains to be seen but surely this can't go on forever ? So it pays next to NO tax and pays its staff to live in poverty. Good corporate citizen ? Hmmmm

In total disagreement with your post!!!!! lol.

[couta1]

With the greatest respect mate its not about staff training and systems. If you're paying people $16 an hour who work really hard and they need circa $18.30 an hour, (the recognised minimum liveable wage) to live with a modicum of some level of dignity. RYM make money by paying a substantial percentage of their staff at a rate where those staff have to live in poverty. Sorry if this unpalatable fact makes shareholders feel slightly uncomfortable. If they paid people properly they wouldn't have to spend so much on staff training as staff churn would be much lowerahead.the unquestionable market leader in this sector they definitely have a role to play and this rolI've ill place further pressure on costs.

The other aspect of this latest result that hasn't gone unnoticed, is yet again we have a low quality result in that there's basically an inconsequential amount of tax being paid. How long can this corporate get away with escaping its tax obligations remains to be seen but surely this can't go on forever ? So it pays next to NO tax and pays its staff to live in poverty. Good corporate citizen ? Hmmmm
The standard of care I saw for my Dad in his last few months in one of Ryman's secure dementia facilities was also highly questionable...The old saying of "if you pay peanuts you get monkeys" springs very readily to mind. Ryman's profit increases continue, (albeit at a slower rate) but at what price to staff and its most vulnerable and needy ?

Have to disagree here Roger, Ryman are already leading the pack re staff pay rates paying between $16.50 - $18 per hour to caregivers , the Kristine Bartlett case only highlights what happens when a stingy company like Tera Nova only pays the minimum wage to someone who has worked for them for 20 years and then the question has to be asked why she has continued to work for them when she could get a job with any other company in the area (Of which there are many) Ryman are very proactive in there staff training opportunities and scholarship awards to those who are motivated to move ahead. Also they have put a lot of things in place over the last year or so to improve resident care, ive personally seen this occurring but it won't stop every problem or incident from happening and that's just life.

[Beagle]

Its good to hear of some improvements mate and that Ryman are supportive of staff that want to get ahead. Still a curiosity that a company making record profits with a market capitalisation of over four billion dollars is still paying most staff below the established minimum liveable wage, i.e. poverty wages and they're paying ostensibly no tax year after year after year.

[Harvey Specter]

Its good to hear of some improvements mate and that Ryman are supportive of staff that want to get ahead. Still a curiosity that a company making record profits with a market capitalisation of over four billion dollars is still paying most staff below the established minimum liveable wage, i.e. poverty wages and they're paying ostensibly no tax year after year after year.

There is no such thing as a minimum liveable wage. It was made up by some pastor who is already fudging numbers as his original calls would be even more unrealistic now. Have you ever wondered why NZs made up living wage is hire than the made up living wage in London and the U.S.?

There is market wages and I understand Ryman pays above market.

Edit: RYM should not be force to pay more to its staff than its competitors just because it has a successful business model.

[dingoNZ]

No, but naturally you would think the two occur simultaneously

[Beagle]

There is no such thing as a minimum liveable wage. It was made up by some pastor who is already fudging numbers as his original calls would be even more unrealistic now. Have you ever wondered why NZs made up living wage is hire than the made up living wage in London and the U.S.?

There is market wages and I understand Ryman pays above market.

Edit: RYM should not be force to pay more to its staff than its competitors just because it has a successful business model.

They don't pay more than DHB's which is why they often can't attract quality staff. Phillipino's with limited or no English were the norm when my Dad was in a secure dementia facility at Orewa two years ago. Staff churn was so high and systems so poor that nobody seemed to really have a handle on patients needs. But all good, lets just drug them up to the eyeballs so they don't know any better that'll be good for profits and as long as we're paying more than other third rate players and talk about improving our systems we can claim the moral high ground and untaxed profits keep rolling in.
The least you'd think this corporate could do is pay a reasonable amount of tax so that when the majority of their staff living in poverty apply for benefit top-ups, family support, accommodation supplement, emergency food grants e.t.c. the company was in effect supplementing staff wages with corporate tax paid.
http://www.livingwage.org.nz/ Minimum wage to live in dignity now $18.80 per hour.
Meanwhile over at Air New Zealand they have 11,000 staff and their labour bill was $1.15 billion dollars, average salary is over $104,000 and AIR pay proper amounts of corporate tax.
Any wonder AIR is seen as an employer of choice with thousands of people apparently wait listed in their system waiting for jobs to come up.
I think we need an enquiry as to how this four billion dollar company never ever pays meaningful tax. Think I'll do my bit for the welfare system and pen a letter to Bill English. If they're using some accelerated depreciation allowances on building fit out to game the system maybe its time for a reform of this area of the tax system ? Gosh I'm starting to sound like I'm some sort of socialist, that feels a bit scary but at the same time good.

[percy]

It is in the goverment's and the country's interest, to have private enterprises develop retirement/care facilities.
RYM,MET,and SUM are doing their very best,but the retirement sector is/and will have trouble building ahead of the huge tail wind of the aging population.
The sector is creating great employment opportunities.

[Harvey Specter]

RYM pay the correct amount of tax. The impact of their occupation licences produces an unusual result but the IRD are well aware of it and have signed off on it multiple times for various operators over the past few decades.

[Joshuatree]

Disagree re your pay rates. I know a person working at Ryman for $14.50 an hour. No payment for meal breaks even if she works through it!!!

Have to disagree here Roger, Ryman are already leading the pack re staff pay rates paying between $16.50 - $18 per hour to caregivers , the Kristine Bartlett case only highlights what happens when a stingy company like Tera Nova only pays the minimum wage to someone who has worked for them for 20 years and then the question has to be asked why she has continued to work for them when she could get a job with any other company in the area (Of which there are many) Ryman are very proactive in there staff training opportunities and scholarship awards to those who are motivated to move ahead. Also they have put a lot of things in place over the last year or so to improve resident care, ive personally seen this occurring but it won't stop every problem or incident from happening and that's just life.

[Beagle]

Disagree re your pay rates. I know a person working at Ryman for $14.50 an hour. No payment for meal breaks even if she works through it!!!

WOW a whopping 25 cents above absolute lowest legal minimum adult wage of $14.25 per hour. Its the safest bet in town that she would be expected to work through her meal break if they were short handed, which would be quite often seeing as they're paying peanuts they'll have really regular problems with staff absenteeism and your friend will be expected to cover up for Ryman stinginess.