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  1. #41
    percy
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    Why no comments recently? For example South Canterbury Finance have indicated that they are now talking about bringing in cash from other investors. Hence no public float. Is Pyne Gould involved? Would SCF and Pyne make a good mix, would they be certain to get a Bank License if takenover.

    Plus what is happening now? Is Pyne in profit yet, are most problems behind them? News and Gossip welcome.
    Friendly rivals.Hubard helped kerr out when no one else would.Kerr now returning the favour.
    At the AGM said pgc had enough on their plate without having to sort out South Canterbury. Banking License is on track but will take a little time.Will mean they pay less for money.
    I think we will start getting progress updates shortly. I would think Marac is trading well.The PGW investment should start to show capital growth and new people Kerr has brought in will want to prove their worth.

  2. #42
    Legend Balance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    Why no comments recently? For example South Canterbury Finance have indicated that they are now talking about bringing in cash from other investors. Hence no public float. Is Pyne Gould involved? Would SCF and Pyne make a good mix, would they be certain to get a Bank License if takenover.

    Plus what is happening now? Is Pyne in profit yet, are most problems behind them? News and Gossip welcome.
    Mouse, note that most of the posters were very negative on PGC so they missed out big time on investing during the rights issue. That's why there's no comments - there are few shareholders.

    If you want to know what's happening - just follow the insiders and directors. They are buying and paying higher and higher prices for their increased shareholdings.

    The last lot that the two Georges (Kerr & Gould) bought was at 50 cents from SCF.

    Watch some of the posters screaming insider trading in 6 months' time when the share price goes up much higher. Same posters will not buy now at 48c or 49c - below where the directors paid!

  3. #43
    percy
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    PGC is now in the top 50 index.
    This came alot earlier than expected.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Mouse, note that most of the posters were very negative on PGC so they missed out big time on investing during the rights issue. That's why there's no comments - there are few shareholders.

    If you want to know what's happening - just follow the insiders and directors. They are buying and paying higher and higher prices for their increased shareholdings.

    The last lot that the two Georges (Kerr & Gould) bought was at 50 cents from SCF.

    Watch some of the posters screaming insider trading in 6 months' time when the share price goes up much higher. Same posters will not buy now at 48c or 49c - below where the directors paid!
    I bought 40,000 PGC and am now in profit. So I am quite happy. I could not understand how people would refuse to invest in a finance company that had its cash raising fully underwritten. PGC were clearly going to become a major player in the finance field, particularly with so many companies going belly up. I think that with George Kerr having so much cash in the company that we must even get a dividend of at least 1 cent or even more this year. In a couple of years the shares could even be worth 80 cents.

  5. #45
    percy
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouse View Post
    I bought 40,000 PGC and am now in profit. So I am quite happy. I could not understand how people would refuse to invest in a finance company that had its cash raising fully underwritten. PGC were clearly going to become a major player in the finance field, particularly with so many companies going belly up. I think that with George Kerr having so much cash in the company that we must even get a dividend of at least 1 cent or even more this year. In a couple of years the shares could even be worth 80 cents.
    Mouse.Hang on for the ride.At the AGM kerr spoke of how when times were good the market valued finance compnnies at twice their NTA,and when times were tough at or under nta.
    PGC NTA at present 61cents or there about.He also stated he needed the dividend.
    As you said PGC will clearly going to become a major player in the finance field.
    Last edited by percy; 23-01-2010 at 06:37 PM. Reason: spelling

  6. #46
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    Red face No Dividend this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    Mouse.Hang on for the ride.At the AGM kerr spoke of how when times were good the market valued finance compnnies at twice their NTA,and when times were tough at or under nta.
    PGC NTA at present 61cents or there about.He also stated he needed the dividend.
    As you said PGC will clearly going to become a major player in the finance field.
    I went to the special meeting today in Christchurch to eat sausage rolls and get info. First, there were no sausage rolls. This is quite sad. Had to eat sandwiches instead. They should have sausage rolls. How can you have any meeting of shareholders without sausage rolls?

    No dividend for the financial year ending June this year. However, a good prospect of one next year. So Percy, not just Pike but Pyne are no cash. Spoke to Sam Maling. He said that no dividend was affecting the share price. Hence low level. Sam did say he thought that Pyne is a $2.00 stock. Within the next couple of years.

    I also spoke to The Press Business Editor who was there. She said that Pyne now have a very good board. So that is some cause for optimism.

  7. #47
    percy
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    mouse.
    11am meetings no. 4pm friday afternoon is when the good wine and tucker comes out.I found Sam Maling good to talk to, Straight shooter,I will miss his good way of running a meeting.
    Years ago I went to AGM and there was darn near three cheers for the chairman when he announced an increase in divie. That was Sir Miles Warren He was a good chairman also.
    I think we will slowly see things happen and as you found out divie will get the SP moving.Strong board,strong balance sheet,good staff, mouse, thanks for reporting and going to the meeting.
    I am flat out at present so didnot get to the meeting.

  8. #48
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    PGC set to roll over loan to SCF
    By MARTA STEEMAN - The Press Last updated 05:00 05/03/2010

    Pyne Gould Corporation cornerstone shareholder George Kerr is prepared to renew the $75 million loan to South Canterbury Finance – "all going well".
    International ratings agency Standard and Poor's said this week SCF needs the continuing investment of debenture holders and other "liability stakeholders" when it announced SCF's credit rating downgrade to BB. PGC's Torchlight Credit Fund lent SCF $75m in October.
    Mr Kerr, who chairs the Torchlight Credit Fund, said yesterday, after a special meeting of PGC, that the loan by Torchlight matured in May and "all going well we would like to extend it, assessing things are going down the right track".
    Mr Kerr said SCF still needed to do significant restructuring and new chief executive Sandy Maier had seen clearly what to do, which was to consolidate the assets under one group, Southbury. Torchlight supported the strategy.
    There were potential opportunities for Torchlight to offer SCF more liquidity from time to time and maybe buy some assets and/or provide debt that could convert to equity.
    Mr Kerr said at the PGC annual meeting in October he regarded SCF as "friends". Torchlight had been set up to provide credit to stressed companies and had been busy. Mr Kerr would not reveal how many loans Torchlight had extended but SCF's was the first.
    PGC's new Perpetual Asset Management (PAM) funds management business in its first six months contributed $1.9m in pre-tax earnings and much of PAM's earnings had come from Torchlight.
    A shareholder at the PGC special meeting yesterday asked why Marac was getting out of property lending when everyone else was, creating opportunities in property.
    Managing director Jeff Greenslade said property activities were being pursued in another part of the company. Marac's impaired loans had been placed with Real Estate Credit and that was being managed by Torchlight.
    He said PGC wanted Marac focused on higher-quality lending. Marac was focused on establishing deep relationships with its customers, regaining an investment grade credit rating and securing a banking licence.
    Asked about sharebroker Chris Lee's view of the formation of a South Island bank through the merger of SCF, Marac and other players, Mr Kerr said it was a reasonable idea, but he suggested that opportunities in the finance sector were part of Torchlight's domain.
    ========================
    1/ Isn't Torchlight lending to stressed companies a significant risk, which could impact on the health of PGC as a whole?
    2/ Why get involved in lending to SCF? Why take the risk? Is this 'related party' lending? What is gained by being "friends" with SCF?
    3/ Why not steer clear of potentially high risk loans as a group....not just MARAC, but the whole of PGC as a totality. Surely PGC has learnt from past mistakes (?) and will not put the health of the company as risk again (?)

  9. #49
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    I think I'll sell off my PGC, for the following reasons:
    1/ All these millionaires in Canterbury are a clique. PGC should be in competition with SCF, not propping them up. This should be about business, not about 'friends'. $75 million is a big chunk of money...too big in my book.
    2/ Torchlight has been given a mandate to invest in 'distressed companies'. I'm not comfortable with that. The whole group could be crippled by another round of big impaired loans no matter how strongly the other parts of the business perform.
    3/ MARAC is a tainted brand....it's not suitable to be turned into a bank, it's associated with bad & written-off loans. The banking industry is competetive in NZ, and we already have a local component in TSB and Kiwi Bank. I don't see that MARAC has much going for it.
    4/ The recent saga's of the 'hidden loan' and the 'runaway chief risk officer' is another big blow to the credibility of MARAC.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logen Ninefingers View Post
    I think I'll sell off my PGC, for the following reasons:
    1/ All these millionaires in Canterbury are a clique. PGC should be in competition with SCF, not propping them up. This should be about business, not about 'friends'. $75 million is a big chunk of money...too big in my book.
    2/ Torchlight has been given a mandate to invest in 'distressed companies'. I'm not comfortable with that. The whole group could be crippled by another round of big impaired loans no matter how strongly the other parts of the business perform.
    3/ MARAC is a tainted brand....it's not suitable to be turned into a bank, it's associated with bad & written-off loans. The banking industry is competetive in NZ, and we already have a local component in TSB and Kiwi Bank. I don't see that MARAC has much going for it.
    4/ The recent saga's of the 'hidden loan' and the 'runaway chief risk officer' is another big blow to the credibility of MARAC.
    Wise decision - if you are uncomfortable and cannot get comfortable, get out.

  11. #51
    percy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Wise decision - if you are uncomfortable and cannot get comfortable, get out.
    I agree if uncomfortable it is a wise to get out.
    I am very comfortable because;
    1/clique yes you do not stand between them and a dollar.I have been friends with my competitors for years.they have helped me out and I have helped them out.good business.
    2/warren Buffett and most wealthy people have invested in distressed companies.All to do with risk reward.
    3/ MARAC is not tainted.remember when American Express nearly went broke.Buffett was at a restaraunt and saw customers using AE card ,brought the company and made a lot of money.
    4/Hidden loan will allways happen in a financial company.donot sell westpac because some one had their fingers in the till.what is positive is new system picked it up.

  12. #52
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    Ok, so we should all invest in distressed finance companies. Sounds like a good idea. Did Warren Buffett chuck some money into Hanover when they were distressed?
    I don't get the bit about being friends with competitors. Isn't the market about survival of the fittest? Or is this all 'keep your friends close and your enemies closer"?
    What is negative is that the loan was very old and eventually had to come to light.
    What's happening with the chief risk officer? His profile is still on the MARAC site.

  13. #53
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    Smile Sean Kam

    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    I agree if uncomfortable it is a wise to get out.
    I am very comfortable because;
    1/clique yes you do not stand between them and a dollar.I have been friends with my competitors for years.they have helped me out and I have helped them out.good business.
    2/warren Buffett and most wealthy people have invested in distressed companies.All to do with risk reward.
    3/ MARAC is not tainted.remember when American Express nearly went broke.Buffett was at a restaraunt and saw customers using AE card ,brought the company and made a lot of money.
    4/Hidden loan will allways happen in a financial company.donot sell westpac because some one had their fingers in the till.what is positive is new system picked it up.
    Sean Kam was the chap who discovered the problem loan. I chatted to him after the special meeting and congratulated him on locating the problem loan. It appears the loan was very well hidden and required quite a bit of work to ferret it out. Sean is to be congratulated. As I said to him, 'you call it as you see it'. A bad loan is just that. Previous to talking to Sean I had spoken to another of the Marac chaps who mentioned the work Sean had done.
    I dont care if the news is bad, what bothers me is when bad news goes through the mincer and becomes wonderful. Good luck to Pyne. I shall continue to hold.

  14. #54
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    Geez, I wonder who hid the loan? Was it one person or did others know about it? It was unauthorised aye?

  15. #55
    percy
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    LM
    NO! NO! NO! A mine field.You have to be an expert.I was thinking of GPG looking at Hanover and walking away.Buffett brought bond in five mile nucular plant after it was shut down because he worked out they would still be paid out.
    survival of the fittest.maybe but I have allways done better business through cooperation.It depends where you draw the line.
    Yes it was a very old loan.
    I would expect profile to be removed.
    Mouse you sure spoke to a lot of people and learnt plenty.well done.

  16. #56
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    Smile Being Retired

    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    LM
    NO! NO! NO! A mine field.You have to be an expert.I was thinking of GPG looking at Hanover and walking away.Buffett brought bond in five mile nucular plant after it was shut down because he worked out they would still be paid out.
    survival of the fittest.maybe but I have allways done better business through cooperation.It depends where you draw the line.
    Yes it was a very old loan.
    I would expect profile to be removed.
    Mouse you sure spoke to a lot of people and learnt plenty.well done.
    That is the whole point of going to meetings, isn't it. Not to listen to what is said on the record, but the refreshment discussions. Never leave early. Pity about the sausage rolls though.
    I am pretty happy about Pyne. I was thinking of selling some of Pyne and buying more of Pike but have now changed my mind. I reckon Pyne will be in the money some time before Pike. Now I am satisfied with my holdings in both. 30,000 Pyne, about 6,000 in Pike plus any rights on offer that I can get this time round. I look on Pike as much more of a punt than Pyne.

  17. #57
    percy
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    Mouse.That i s the whole point of going to meetings.YES.You have taken good practice to an art form!!!!
    We may never meet at any meetings.I will not answer to the name percy,and am not going around asking everyone if they are mouse.!!!!
    I think you will feel better with your holdings from attending the meeting.
    You have a good amount at stake so worthwhile keeping a close eye on it.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    Mouse.That i s the whole point of going to meetings.YES.You have taken good practice to an art form!!!!
    We may never meet at any meetings.I will not answer to the name percy,and am not going around asking everyone if they are mouse.!!!!
    I think you will feel better with your holdings from attending the meeting.
    You have a good amount at stake so worthwhile keeping a close eye on it.
    I remember the NZ railways. Cannot remember who owned them at the time. Lovely Annual Reports. Profit and dividends. A good investment. But I looked at the locomotives which were diesel and belching smoke as if they were steam trains as they went through Christchurch which is totally flat! I remembered the words of Brash Bonsall, my Bible School lecturer in England. "The Canadian Pacific railway got in trouble. It took then two locomotives to get the wagons up a small incline near my house. Then three locomotives. Then they went bankrupt". Same with our railway. They were belching smoke and went broke, I never put any cash in. You have to keep an eye on what is happening, as well as reading the reports. Many thanks for your encouragement Percy.
    Last edited by mouse; 06-03-2010 at 09:33 PM.

  19. #59
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    happy to hold.

  20. #60
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    What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

    After the near death experience, PGC is perfectly positioned to be a prime mover & shaker in the finance sector:

    Strong balance sheet,
    deep pocketed and well connected shareholders,
    new management,
    established presence,
    government guarantee to get the funds required to expand,
    business and commercial sector screaming for credit and prepared to offer security,
    high margins

    Meanwhile most of its competitors are buggered or are hated (the trading banks).

    And the sp reflects the usual NZ 'wait until everything is clear' mentality.

    Hold and will sell when sp is $5.05.
    Last edited by Balance; 07-03-2010 at 12:55 PM.

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