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  1. #2431
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    Quote Originally Posted by blobbles View Post
    Don't need to. They have these things called "ice cores" which tell them back far enough to be of consequence.

    Or are you saying that we need to know basically the location of every atom in the universe, at all times in the last 4 billion years before we know anything?
    No, but we need to know before we know everything.

  2. #2432
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    No, but we need to know before we know everything.
    Ergo we don't know everything and cannot possibly ever know everything. However using well tested theories backed up by direct observation, we can make highly accurate and educated assumptions about the nature of the universe. For reference, see all human progress ever.

    Why some people decide to completely ignore science or call it something it is not, just because it doesn't agree with their uninformed opinion, is symptomatic of the ostrich effect and/or an easily fooled mind. See climate science.

    Yes I understand not everyone agrees, not even experts like Judith Curry and Tim Ball who are of particular note here. They are the best in this field, who should be encouraged to make alternative hypothesis. Curry espouses "the uncertainty monster" with more and more certainty coming into the science as it progress. Ball seems to live in a constant state of denial when temperatures keep reaching new peaks and attempts to blame other known and discounted phenomena. Again - they throw doubt on the AGW theory, however there is a chorus of just as educated voices that are in agreement - far and away larger and backed up by evidence.

    Theories of what gravity is still abound, but we still use it to do all sorts of cool stuff. Or quantum mechanics (see all modern computing), or almost every other field or advanced research. Strangely, we don't have mass hysterical outrage at these other groups, because they don't tell us our current systems are putting future generations at risk. We simply hate to look at ourselves and see that our actions are part of the problem, instead we wish to live in a constant state of denial and latch onto any shred of evidence that our actions have no effect.

    Progress doesn't require complete understanding, but it does at least require acknowledgement of visible effects. Remember that AGW just passed another test - virtually irrefutable evidence that it is human induced, with only a 1 in a million chance of it not being linked to human emissions according to analysis of observed changes vs background noise: https://www.nature.com/articles/s415...9cB3EDvIdLA%3D. And still people want to grasp some other straw.

  3. #2433
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    Quote Originally Posted by blobbles View Post
    Ergo we don't know everything and cannot possibly ever know everything. However using well tested theories backed up by direct observation, we can make highly accurate and educated assumptions about the nature of the universe. For reference, see all human progress ever.

    Why some people decide to completely ignore science or call it something it is not, just because it doesn't agree with their uninformed opinion, is symptomatic of the ostrich effect and/or an easily fooled mind. See climate science.

    Yes I understand not everyone agrees, not even experts like Judith Curry and Tim Ball who are of particular note here. They are the best in this field, who should be encouraged to make alternative hypothesis. Curry espouses "the uncertainty monster" with more and more certainty coming into the science as it progress. Ball seems to live in a constant state of denial when temperatures keep reaching new peaks and attempts to blame other known and discounted phenomena. Again - they throw doubt on the AGW theory, however there is a chorus of just as educated voices that are in agreement - far and away larger and backed up by evidence.

    Theories of what gravity is still abound, but we still use it to do all sorts of cool stuff. Or quantum mechanics (see all modern computing), or almost every other field or advanced research. Strangely, we don't have mass hysterical outrage at these other groups, because they don't tell us our current systems are putting future generations at risk. We simply hate to look at ourselves and see that our actions are part of the problem, instead we wish to live in a constant state of denial and latch onto any shred of evidence that our actions have no effect.

    Progress doesn't require complete understanding, but it does at least require acknowledgement of visible effects. Remember that AGW just passed another test - virtually irrefutable evidence that it is human induced, with only a 1 in a million chance of it not being linked to human emissions according to analysis of observed changes vs background noise: https://www.nature.com/articles/s415...9cB3EDvIdLA%3D. And still people want to grasp some other straw.
    Where did you get the one in a million stat from?

  4. #2434
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonu View Post
    Where did you get the one in a million stat from?
    It's beyond the 5 sigma threshold. I was also underestimating, it's actually a lot higher than this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/68%E2%...80%9399.7_rule

  5. #2435
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    Quote Originally Posted by blobbles View Post
    It's beyond the 5 sigma threshold. I was also underestimating, it's actually a lot higher than this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/68%E2%...80%9399.7_rule
    Wasn't that in 2 out of 3 studies? Where does that put the 3rd study? Is it a disprover or bollocks?

  6. #2436
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    Its rather complex
    "Some options include improved and sustainable food production, improved and sustainable forest management, soil organic carbon management, ecosystem conservation and land restoration, reduced deforestation and degradation, and reduced food loss and waste."
    ""Nationally, we may face the pressures of increased export demand particularly if food supply instabilities increase as predicted with more severe impacts of climate change in some major food-producing regions."
    http://www.sharechat.co.nz/article/2...12+August+2019

  7. #2437
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    Flight tracker
    https://planefinder.net/

  8. #2438
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    "Climate change is also driving a need to de-carbonise, which is being met by technological shifts like the move to electric vehicles, thereby placing even more demand on infrastructure. The Productivity Commission estimates New Zealand will need to increase electricity generation by at least 50 per cent (and conceivably double it) by 2050 to meet this growth."
    But it won't be just electricity generation,it will be transmission as well eg Wellington bus recharging station limited by the electricity line capacity.
    IFT well placed
    ://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12260348&utm_source=ST &utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ShareTrader+AM+Upda te+for+Wednesday+21+August+2019

  9. #2439
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    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...erica-49415973

    Brazil's president is complicit, but the extreme right idiot blames NGOs with no evidence. Chasing Trump for title of Supreme Stupid?

    Amazon is burning, don't worry, we don't need that pesky forest.

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