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  1. #21
    Senior Member upside_umop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    You've been listening to too many academics again.
    Academics or not, the statistics are out there. Half of NZ's emissions are from biological assets - that is, cows, sheep etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    NZ is a farming country..
    Farming is the backbone of NZ. I agree. I'm pretty sure I've said this a few times before also.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    Companies can send their jobs (F & P) and technology offshore but no company can export the climate or the soil to Shanghai.
    I dont get ya. I get the first bit. As for exporting climate and soil? I believe we indirectly do. Our competitive advantage in farming is our climate and the way we farm through conditioning of soil, farming techniques, among many other things (I'm no farmer, just pointing out the obvious). Eventually our competitive advantage will be narrowed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    I read about the pundits that say we should be a technology based society etc. but I've been hearing that for decades, we're in the wrong business, but soon as they make a dollar NZ's too expensive, so they send it all to Mexico or China.
    F & P are finding out right now that it doesn't always work, and furthermore there's no sympathy..
    Yeah, I've read that too. We're an isolated country, so if we could adapt it would be great as the world is turning 'green.' We're not a manufacturing country, and cant be a manufacturing country in the slightest without protectionism (which is fine by me as the long run benefits should outweigh the short).

    Are you saying you have no sympathy for FPA? I do...the sooner the get rid of the rest of the manufacturing jobs the better. Probably not in the short run but thats how the unions get sympathy isnt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    A bit like the 'food miles' touted by the europeans to protect their already subsidised agricultural industry.
    Yeah, thats what protectionism does. In the short term it will benefit them (understanable in this enviroment), but in the long run it will hurt them. If the british regulators actually understood that NZ dairy products contain less than half the co2 of their own, even considering the long distance travelled, then we would be laughing. The sad thing is, I think they do, but its more of a political thing isnt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    PS. Weren't you headed for the banking sector in London?
    No, that was never the plan. I said 'in a few years.' The original plan is to do honours in finance (this year) and then spend a few years in an accounting firm to get a solid base (ie CA + couple years) before moving onto more financial market orientated activities.
    By the way - it's upside_down, not upside_umop

  2. #22
    Legend shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiawatha View Post
    I'm not sure whether farting is the culprit - I'm no biologist - but I have heard that livestock are a major source of methane emissions.
    hiawatha
    Not a scientist at all, but isnt the bulk of the methane ommitted from the cow's mouth via burping, rather than the other end?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by upside_umop View Post
    No, that was never the plan. I said 'in a few years.' The original plan is to do honours in finance (this year) and then spend a few years in an accounting firm to get a solid base (ie CA + couple years) before moving onto more financial market orientated activities.
    You said on the peak oil thread#1233)
    "Dubai is hot, I'll be wanting to hit that place in a few years".

    Good luck because it's Dubai that's taking the hit, property prices down up to 75%.
    You can join John Thain, Merrill Lynch, Citigroup, Madoff and Lehmans and all the other Masters of the Universe now in receivership.

    Don't count on the bonuses though

    Aviation's doing Ok, it's finance that's crashing and burning. LOL

    I told you on the peak oil thread not to listen to professors, most of them can't tie their own shoelaces.
    Last edited by Skol; 23-02-2009 at 07:31 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    Not a scientist at all, but isnt the bulk of the methane ommitted from the cow's mouth via burping, rather than the other end?
    I'm no scientist either but I own cows. They burp all the time but I can only recall noticing flatulence in cattle once. Farting cows is a fanciful theory.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    I'm no scientist either but I own cows. They burp all the time but I can only recall noticing flatulence in cattle once. Farting cows is a fanciful theory.
    That says everything..........you really have no idea Skol?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiawatha View Post
    I thought the methane came from dung after the the cow had pooped. Perhaps if we trained cows to use a toilet, and to flush it afterwards, it would solve the problem.
    hiawatha
    Nope its the microbial action in the gut which breaks down the cellulose that does it. Loads of burps a day is the problem. But lets face it, a “Burp Tax” doesn’t quite grab the publics attention like a “Fart Tax”. So we need to get rid of cows, sheep, goats, rice paddies, swampy wetlands and landfills. They all have critters living there that produce methane.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Nope its the microbial action in the gut which breaks down the cellulose that does it. Loads of burps a day is the problem. But lets face it, a “Burp Tax” doesn’t quite grab the publics attention like a “Fart Tax”. So we need to get rid of cows, sheep, goats, rice paddies, swampy wetlands and landfills. They all have critters living there that produce methane.
    What about people? Didn't you watch the programme on Documentary Channel at 2030hrs last night called 'I Can't Stop Farting'?

    Some of these people were so flatulent that their social lives were in ruins and there's actually an internet dating site for those with Irritable Bowel Syndrome.
    Last edited by Skol; 24-02-2009 at 08:33 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    What about people? Didn't you watch the programme on Documentary Channel at 2030hrs last night called 'I Can't Stop Farting'?
    I bet they were closet Greenies. They are the type that go round gulping air while exclaiming “the end is nigh”, “what about the grand children”’ “No Nukes”, “Kyoto”. And I guess they’ll be stinky since most Greenies ought to be bean eaters (they will have cut back on eating cows who we know already produce loads of methane) and they’ll have their own wee veggie patch full of cauliflower, corn and cabbage.

  9. #29
    Senior Member upside_umop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    You said on the peak oil thread#1233)
    "Dubai is hot, I'll be wanting to hit that place in a few years".

    Good luck because it's Dubai that's taking the hit, property prices down up to 75%.
    You can join John Thain, Merrill Lynch, Citigroup, Madoff and Lehmans and all the other Masters of the Universe now in receivership.

    Don't count on the bonuses though

    Aviation's doing Ok, it's finance that's crashing and burning. LOL

    I told you on the peak oil thread not to listen to professors, most of them can't tie their own shoelaces.
    Its funny how you cant reply to the whole quote...you have no answer to most of it.

    Few years - relatively subjective. How many is a few? I think you'll find, I have always wanted to do a bit of accounting first. I will end up in finance eventually...Dubai has obviously changed, but the long term prospects are good.

    I've said it before, it was a failure of legislation, not a failure of the banks. Its a competitive industry, and if one bank didnt lend, another would have...

    Bonuses? Still a butt load of bonuses going out...the good thing about financiers is that you can make money in any market.

    Aviation is rubbish. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it...not a good long term investment. Want me to bring up those graphs again? haha There may be short term blips, but the trend is clear.

    Wikipedida - Historically, air travel has survived largely through state support, whether in the form of equity or subsidies. The airline industry as a whole has made a cumulative loss during its 120-year history, once the costs include subsidies for aircraft development and airport construction
    Oh sorry, that quote must be wrong eh? I mean, academics are usually the ones who update wikipedia.

    Professors? Grow up...I see a lot of jelousy from you towards academics. You fail to understand what research has brought us...I suppose next you'll be saying you'd rather we were still bartering with sticks and carrots and using salt as our currency.

    Back to global warming.

    What about people? Didn't you watch the programme on Documentary Channel at 2030hrs last night called 'I Can't Stop Farting'?

    Some of these people were so flatulent that their social lives were in ruins and there's actually an internet dating site for those with Irritable Bowel Syndrome.
    Didnt see it.

    So your trying to say, that a human being puts out as much methane as a cow? If you have 6 cows, you can run an average car on it with the amount of methane they produce.

    If carbon emissions are serious, and it does contribute to global warming, then it would have to be investigated as they would be a large proportion of the make up. That being said, I wouldnt like the idea that wee NZ take such a stance and no one else does. It would just eat away at our competitiveness.
    By the way - it's upside_down, not upside_umop

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by upside_umop View Post
    Oh sorry, that quote must be wrong eh? I mean, academics are usually the ones who update wikipedia.
    Perhaps you ought to read this then.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology...ectid=10555158

  11. #31
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post

    And Uncyclopedia is an equally reliable but not often quoted resource for those wanting to take short cuts in rigorous research. If you want an authoritative citation then visit: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

  12. #32
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    Interesting the psychological effects of the Great Recession (we're getting closer to calling it a Depression with Japan's industrial output plunging 10% in one month, I suspect we just need more time before it is formally recognised as a Depression).

    The effects I refer to - a very noticeable decline in the amount of texting and emails and a very noticeable decline in the amount of posting on Sharetraders. Also, sadly, a most noticeable decline in Internet posted or email jokes - practically vanished.

    As a mark of defiance here's a reminder of that endangered species (no, government subsidies and more regulation can't save it).

    "One day a guy and an attractive woman who didn’t know each other, separately boarded a plane to Australia from NZ.

    By chance they sat next to each other in the plane and started reading magazines.

    After a while he made an effort at making conversation….



    Are you off to somewhere interesting for a holiday?, he enquired.



    Well, I’m going to the Australasian Nymphomaniacs annual conference in Sydney, she replied.



    Silence, while they flicked through their magazines.



    Which type of man do you like best? He asks.



    Oh, policemen, they’re big, manly and honest.



    And second?



    Cowboys, they’re good at riding horses and into saddles, leather, whips and boots.



    And third?



    Jewish men, they’re intelligent, artistic and circumcised.



    Silence while they flick further through their magazines.



    Oh, I didn’t ask you what your name is? She asked.



    Sergeant Hopalong Bernstein, he replied."

  13. #33
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    one of the most significant sources of pollutants, methane?, is hydro-electric power generation. Vast areas of swampland in North America and Russia are used as water supply and strorageareas for the schemes. The regular flooding and drainage of the swamplands creates massive amounts of decaying vegetable matter.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by hiawatha View Post
    It looks like Al Gore has been vindicated.
    Oh no he hasn't.

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    It's another guess, just like when were all told in 1974 that by 2004 the world would be out of oil.
    A punt by a collection of academics.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    It's another guess, just like when were all told in 1974 that by 2004 the world would be out of oil.
    A punt by a collection of academics.
    Not long before that we were waiting for a new ice age caused by what? That's right - man made gases preventing the sun from warming the planet. I'm still waiting for the Y2K bug to eat my house. I've forgotten about bird-flu.
    There's a buck to be made in the panic industry all right. I think I'll start marketing anti mad-cow disease tablets.

  17. #37
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    Meanwhile because of these silly repeated cries of WOLF! by people like Al Gore and Michael Moore who wouldn't know how to spell science, 44% (latest poll) and growing of the US population plus a growing number of scientists and a growing number of EU countries are simply laughing at the PANIC NOW! industry.

    Concomitantly the world temperature has increased by 0.2 degs in the last 10 years and decreased since 2003.

  18. #38
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    That's the problem with the IPCC Al Gore and Michael Moore, their ignorance and politicisation is bliss to them.

  19. #39
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    This is an interesting read:

    Revealed: Antarctic ice growing, not shrinking
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...83-601,00.html

  20. #40
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    Beware the climate of conformity, (Sydney Morning Herald)

    * Paul Sheehan
    * April 13, 2009
    * Page 2 of 3 | Single Page View

    Plimer (the famous geologist/scientist) does not dispute the dramatic flux of climate change - and this column is not about Australia's water debate - but he fundamentally disputes most of the assumptions and projections being made about the current causes, mostly led by atmospheric scientists, who have a different perspective on time. "It is little wonder that catastrophist views of the future of the planet fall on fertile pastures. The history of time shows us that depopulation, social disruption, extinctions, disease and catastrophic droughts take place in cold times … and life blossoms and economies boom in warm times. Planet Earth is dynamic. It always changes and evolves. It is currently in an ice age."

    If we look at the last 6 million years, the Earth was warmer than it is now for 3 million years. The ice caps of the Arctic, Antarctica and Greenland are geologically unusual. Polar ice has only been present for less than 20 per cent of geological time. What follows is an intense compression of the book's 500 pages and all their provocative arguments and conclusions:

    Is dangerous warming occurring? No.

    Is the temperature range observed in the 20th century outside the range of normal variability? No.

    The Earth's climate is driven by the receipt and redistribution of solar energy. Despite this crucial relationship, the sun tends to be brushed aside as the most important driver of climate. Calculations on supercomputers are primitive compared with the complex dynamism of the Earth's climate and ignore the crucial relationship between climate and solar energy.

    "To reduce modern climate change to one variable, CO2, or a small proportion of one variable - human-induced CO2 - is not science. To try to predict the future based on just one variable (CO2) in extraordinarily complex natural systems is folly. Yet when astronomers have the temerity to show that climate is driven by solar activities rather than CO2 emissions, they are dismissed as dinosaurs undertaking the methods of old-fashioned science." Continued...
    http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/beware...ya.html?page=2

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