NZSX50 - Good News!

[BlackPeter]

Cash pie just got bigger ... sold one of my investment properties over the weekend.

Sorry people of NZ - you'll get NO tax from the sale (actually less as it went to an
owner occupier fresh of the boat who is retiring in NZ) while Belgie nets
another 6 figure un-taxed capital gain.

Actually - if you are in the business of buying and selling properties, than you need to pay taxes for capital gains (which really are just your income). Are you?

Anyway - I trust you donate your untaxed gains to fill Labours war chest (turning Belg into Labours DotCom - LOL) ... and Labour will recycle this money into pretty pledge cards (saving the tax payer much more money than they paid for Labours previous pledge card).

And assuming these pledge cards are successful, than Labour / Green / Winston First / Mana later take over and are going to tax our last shirt(s) away. May you live in taxing times

[Vaygor1]

Your cash plié looking good then belg

Buy heaps of good things sometime

If belg made $1000 for his cash plié, would that make it a grand plié ?

Grand Plié.jpg

Given this move, i guess you'll will be keen to put some Labour into the ballet box belg?

[Bjauck]

Cash pie just got bigger ... sold one of my investment properties over the weekend.

Sorry people of NZ - you'll get NO tax from the sale (actually less as it went to an
owner occupier fresh of the boat who is retiring in NZ) while Belgie nets
another 6 figure un-taxed capital gain.

You are acting logically according to the NZ tax and financial system. The greatest returns lead to people investing in real estate where loans are easy to come by, income tax is minimised and capital gains remain untaxed. Part of the reason why the stock market is so small (in comparison to our GDP). The Labour Party proposed CGT will probably do little to address that apart from encouraging a greater investment in CGT-exempt primary residences! IMHO, All investment returns should be taxed where the return exceeds the increase in CPI in addition to taxing imputed rent (where the return on value exceeds the CPI increase) on owner occupied residences. However it is doubtful that a party would be elected on such a policy platform, unfortunately.

[Hoop]

You are acting logically according to the NZ tax and financial system. The greatest returns lead to people investing in real estate where loans are easy to come by, income tax is minimised and capital gains remain untaxed. Part of the reason why the stock market is so small (in comparison to our GDP). The Labour Party proposed CGT will probably do little to address that apart from encouraging a greater investment in CGT-exempt primary residences! IMHO, All investment returns should be taxed where the return exceeds the increase in CPI in addition to taxing imputed rent (where the return on value exceeds the CPI increase) on owner occupied residences. However it is doubtful that a party would be elected on such a policy platform, unfortunately.

Unfortunately you say...

A story....Back in July 2008 this chap found a brass lamp..He rubbed it and out popped a genie granting him one wish.
He thought carefully and then responded I would like to own 10 Billion Dollars and be in my personal bank account as of now...POOF..his wish came true...there in his account was $NZ1 the result of the conversion of 10 Billion Zimbabwe Dollars.

Moral of the story.....Be careful what you wish for as it may not be in the form you wanted..

[Hoop]

Point taken. Any CGT will need to be designed very carefully.

BTW ... If the guy had "thought carefully" as you story says ... He'd have specified the currency.

He should have wished for world peace

Consequently, serves him right.

Hmmm serves him right...
It's can be the intangible inferences that does the damage...for example ...A capital gains tax on used goods, gambling, etc sounds morally right but can upset the systems and the companies involved via demand problems, TAB and its staff, House racing industry,Trade me,etc...then the trickle down effect

CGT on property to stop the greedy rich B's might sound morally right but the system it effects the most would be the middle class and the banking system as the greedy rich B's just move on to another sector...

The situation at the moment in NZ is the housing market is still an overpriced bubble which has been slowly degassing since 2006 (except Auckland ,CHCH)...They are fragile..the air from butterfly wings can pop this Bubble....I think NZ has done well in not popping this bubble during the GFC, other Countries in the world did not handle this bubble well and seen it pop with massive social upheaval and misery....The last thing you want to happen is NZ or OZ now after all the hard work in degassing the bubble is to end up like Spain..It's bubble burst due to demand problems. (remember Spain did have a model financial system envied by the rest of Europe and the USA)

A CGT is an instrument which serves no real value to the Income stream of NZinc it's a blunt demand curbing type tax instrument which should be introduced after a market correction when demand is at it's lowest ...not before and probably causing a correction which would affect everyone's welfare (not just property holders) for years

Be careful what you wish for as it may not be in the form you wanted...eh?

[BlackPeter]

What do I wish for? ... All the fear mongering associated with the introduction of a CGT would dissipate.

Hi Belg, we all know that you think a Capital Gains Tax would be the next best thing after a Labour government (and sliced bread) ...

and hey, I see your point of view: Introduction of a CGT means a much more complicated tax system, more bureaucracy, more IRD staff, more accountants ... must be all good from a Labour perspective - lets do it!.

Given that many capital gains are a zero-sum gain (one party wins, one party looses) would this mean as well that the net gain to the tax payer would be close to Zero (but they still have to pay the additional bureaucracy) - and it might be double negative (negative income plus additional bureaucracy) during times when the state can least afford not to get tax income, just imagine to write off all these post GFC losses from taxable income.

Just give us some examples for countries where the introduction of a CGT improved the economic well-being of its citizens ...

[GTM 3442]

A CGT can be implemented in many ways.

At the moment, the NZ tax system focusses on income and expenditure. These are relatively simple to measure, as they are transaction-based.

It is possible that a CGT would be implemented on a value base, which would be a major change. There is little detail in the public arena concerning the details of what CGT would cover, how it would be assessed, and so on.

This lack of information is positively frightening.

[nextbigthing]

Belg you could be like Sue Bradford and stand up for your morals and donate the portion a capital gains would have taken off you to low income earners or a suitable charity* anyway. Just because it's not law it doesn't have to stop you living by your beliefs. 'Practice what you preach' as some would say....

*Eg Cancer society or the NBT Bahamas retirement fund

[nextbigthing]

*Moosie return to Canada fund is always taking donations too

Might I suggest asking Hancock for a donation, I suspect he will support that cause

[Vaygor1]

*Moosie return to Canada fund is always taking donations too

Also the Repatriate-Vaygor-to-NZ-with-his-27-cubic-metres-of-sh!t fund is open for donors.