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  1. #1231
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Sucking the lifeblood out of other nations...are you referring to the use of the Euro and coat-tailing on the fiscal prudence of the Germans? Coz...the Germans and other creditor Northern Euro countries have been benefiting these past years from having Greece in the Euro. The Greeks racked up debts in part from the fact that Greeks were able to borrow money cheaply from belonging to the Euro ( a strong currency by virtue of the Germans, Dutch etc). With their cheap debt, in a non-depreciating currency, Greeks then bought German Mercedes and BMWs etc. So the German economy benefited from the Greek increased indebtedness held to a large part by German Banks.

    If you want to throw around those sorts of expressions, just who sucked the life-blood out of whom?
    Agreed - there was undoubtedly some benefit for some of the middle European nations by having big spenders without fiscal discipline in their midst. I am sure, that some of the Greek debt paid for some German luxury cars as well as e.g. German (and potentially French) weapons.

    It was as well a benefit for some of the mid european export nations (not just Germany) that thanks to the Greek (and some other financially ill-disciplined South (and West-) European nations they could export using a weaker currency than they otherwise would have (e.g. in the past the strong Deutsch Mark made it always difficult for the German export industry).

    However - it is not good business to give loans to people who don't intend to pay back, even if they choose to use some of the credit to buy goods from you. The new Greek government is now for some time toying with the concept that any debt repayments by them are voluntary, and only if they really like the new terms they are trying to force onto the creditors ...

    I find it difficult to find a more positive description for a people who used to "massage" their books in order to get entry into the Eurozone and be eligible for credit, for a people who don't refrain from blackmail to get more of the "free" money they are used to. Why do you think Greece is currently warming up the idea of a third gigantic war reparation settlement from Germany (equivalent to 1/10th of the German annual GDP) after having already received several full and final settlements? Sorry - as indicated earlier - I am sure there are as many honest and hard working Greek people as in any other nation, but the Greek nation itself deserves in my view no respect for their current behaviour at all. They are bludgers living of other nations hard work.

    In my view - there is no honour left in a system and government like that - they just try to live as long as they can from other peoples money (well, until this money runs out). Actually - just re-reading the latest sentence it dawns to me ... this must be a socialist government they have in Greece these days - isn't it?

    But if you don't like my "sucking other people's lifeblood" - just give me a better word describing their behaviour ...
    ----
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  2. #1232
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    Fair call...Greece never fares well on corruption measures and the black economy in Mediterranean nations is large. It has been like that for yonks so the Dutch, Germans et al. must have been aware of that prior to joining with Greece in the Euro. Did their "grand European vision" make them turn a deliberately blind eye? So perhaps they willingly took the risk of making an offering to the fiscal vampires of Europe?

    The new Greek government is left-wing...hence the latest crisis as they have "promised" not to implement austerity measurenments or honour repayment schedules. The Syriza government leans more to Moscow in its empathy. There are histrorical cultural and religious bonds between Greece and Russia anyway. I don't imagine that Putin will be shedding any tears for the EU in trouble.

  3. #1233
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    Imho, Greece get the money because they threaten to default, not because some ungraciously call them unproductive sloths, nor even whether they can repay. This threatens the Euro fiat currency experiment, of destroying in a cascade of relative productivity from weakest to strongest, the European nations house of cards, until one or none are left standing.

    But it's not better in the USA, or South America, or northern Asia, or Oz, or or or, not even here in NZ or countless other sovereign nations. Where unprecedented escalating sovereign debt and printing treasury bonds to generate liquidity from equally indebted sovereign nations, has become the panacea for national and global fiscal liquidity and to heck with the end-game.

    Should we worry? It's all that sloshy debt sourced capital that underpins sovereign nations ability to continue to invest heavily and constantly where wealth is ultimately accumulated perversely in banks that cannot lend enough of it out. And the fortunate few who accumulate enough capital to participate in wealth creating markets, albeit the wealth denominated in flawed fiat currencies underpinned with extraordinary sovereign debt. Lord help the indebted and the taxpayer who are propping all of this up, albeit unwittingly.

    The second best evidence of impending fiscal calamity aside from monumental escalating sovereign debt is global sovereign competitive currency debasement, which is moving into full swing right now. And on the end of that whipping hose is NZ with it's soaring currency, for no good reason, certainly not an ability to foot it on the global fiscal stage. We don't have a QE machine working overtime, nor a balance sheet to create enduring increasing debt (bonds), nor the cash to manipulate our currency position, nor a surplus to pay our sovereign debt while meeting expenses, nor an economy productive enough to build sufficient surplus, nor an angel nation that we can fiscally threaten so that they float us for eternity.

    The whole world is financially in a terrible mess, and we may be too. It would be great to see discussion about how that affects NZ and what if anything can be done about it, like if there is an immunity pill for NZ, where do we get it or how do we create it, and when do we take it so that NZ fiscally survives the next and inevitable global fiscal meltdown?

    BAA

  4. #1234
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    We're all dooomed Captain Mainwaring!

  5. #1235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    We're all dooomed Captain Mainwaring!
    We are "well positioned." Percy. lol.

  6. #1236
    Advanced Member BIRMANBOY's Avatar
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    Might I remind you lot the thread you have been crying into is named....NZSX50 ..GOOD NEWS!.
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  7. #1237
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIRMANBOY View Post
    Might I remind you lot the thread you have been crying into is named....NZSX50 ..GOOD NEWS!.
    Fair call - it is easy to get of topic when trying to respond to a comment. Still - you are right and I promise to stop whining on this thread!

    Still wondering though whether it would be worthwhile to further investigate Baa-Baa's next crash scenario, but couldn't really find an appropriate place for it on sharetrader (given that this would be bigger than NZX, ASX, or any-other-X, but it is not really off-market either. Any proposals on what forum to establish a thread like "the next crash and how to prepare for it"?
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  8. #1238
    Advanced Member BIRMANBOY's Avatar
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    if you change your avatar to an angel and your name to "WhitePeter" you may not need to. There seemed to be an inordinate number of conspiracy theorists, survivalists, bunker nuts and assorted "oh whoa is me's" on the Gold thread..however the only traffic there was going in circles, so dunno. How about a nice walk outside?
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Fair call - it is easy to get of topic when trying to respond to a comment. Still - you are right and I promise to stop whining on this thread!

    Still wondering though whether it would be worthwhile to further investigate Baa-Baa's next crash scenario, but couldn't really find an appropriate place for it on sharetrader (given that this would be bigger than NZX, ASX, or any-other-X, but it is not really off-market either. Any proposals on what forum to establish a thread like "the next crash and how to prepare for it"?
    www.dividendyield.co.nz
    Conservative Investing and dividend producers...get rich slowly!
    https://www.facebook.com/dividendyieldnz

  9. #1239
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIRMANBOY View Post
    if you change your avatar to an angel and your name to "WhitePeter" you may not need to. There seemed to be an inordinate number of conspiracy theorists, survivalists, bunker nuts and assorted "oh whoa is me's" on the Gold thread..however the only traffic there was going in circles, so dunno. How about a nice walk outside?
    LOL - I do love my avatar - and angels are so boring .... and as far as the next economic crash is concerned ... it is as sure to come as the tax man, death or the next NZ earth quake, the only question is when. Admittedly - the tax man is easier to predict. Preparing for all of these is in my view not pessimism, just sensible precaution.
    Having gone through the flurry of Canterbury earth quakes: Some people attached their shelves (already before the earthquake) against the wall .... are these the pessimists or just the more sensible people? See what I mean?
    ----
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  10. #1240
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    It's easier to keep ones head in the sand and mock those who dare to raise that the world is not all fiscal peaches and cream, than have considered discussion on rationale responses to an inevitable downturn, for whatever reason it occurs. The 'Investment Strategies' might be better place for the discussion, I agree it is not well placed here.

    Quote Originally Posted by BIRMANBOY View Post
    if you change your avatar to an angel and your name to "WhitePeter" you may not need to. There seemed to be an inordinate number of conspiracy theorists, survivalists, bunker nuts and assorted "oh whoa is me's" on the Gold thread..however the only traffic there was going in circles, so dunno. How about a nice walk outside?

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