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  1. #1491
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Makes me wonder if this stock is possibly in play as a takeover target ?
    Lots of those wee bot trades in ATM and SML. But today average trade is worth $5,376. Might need to keep an eye on this number. Maybe its just Moms and Pops

  2. #1492
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    minimoke sold pph and brought SML..good move. how do you know that you insider?

    takeover from? will ATM and bright Dairy allow that to happen? they got about 18% and 49% + shares in management. there should not be much on the market, isn't?Bright Dairy

  3. #1493
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    As posted recently, I believe that if ATM could gain control even at as much as $16 a share that would be a fabulous strategic move on their part.
    Last edited by Beagle; 29-08-2018 at 01:27 PM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  4. #1494
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzsharetrade View Post
    minimoke sold pph and brought SML..good move. how do you know that you insider?

    takeover from? will ATM and bright Dairy allow that to happen? they got about 18% and 49% + shares in management. there should not be much on the market, isn't?Bright Dairy
    Didnt regret that. Topped up with ATM at the same time. Not a bad return for less than a months work.

  5. #1495
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I see flashing lights in rear view mirror Speeding ticket coming up.
    I reckon they get a free pass with overspeed today because of the fact that the market was closed for most of yesterday and even "blind freddy" (AKA NZX enforcement) knows that half today's rise was a catch up on the Aussie close yesterday. They'd be too embarrassed to make an enquiry today...deep shame of their own ineptitude I say !
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  6. #1496
    Speedy Az winner69's Avatar
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    Chris Lee says
    https://www.chrislee.co.nz/taking-stock

    He doesn’t like us using his stuff but this is pretty good so I pasted the relevant parts anyhow

    THE stark difference between the bloated self-serving Fonterra board and executive, and the energy of Synlait Milk’s founder, key shareholders and executive needs minimal discussion from me.

    Fonterra, as a disproven business model, has made bleak investment decisions, been slow to spot market change, and displayed little vision when it declined to take up holdings in Synlait Milk and A2Milk, in their formative days.

    By contrast the progress and value-add at SML and ATM has been astonishing.

    Both companies would appear near the beginning of any book entitled ‘’Great NZ Corporate Successes’’.

    If the Otago opportunist, risk-taker and entrepreneur Howard Paterson had not suffocated as a result of mis-swallowing a potato crisp, he would surely be touted today as a key figure in ATM’s beginning and would be forgiven for those of his ventures that failed.

    John Penno’s modest aspirations to build Synlait Milk have been vastly surpassed in just seven years, in part because he has made the right connections with capital markets, enabling his business model to be nurtured through a period of great debt.

    Today SML’s relative debt has been normalised. I have little doubt it will be a dividend-payer within the next three years.

    It does face one problem. So few of its shares are now accessible, its ‘’free float’’ of shares must restrict its appeal to investors who focus on a fair price with any new investment. At $13, Synlait’s price can be justified only with the help of imagination.

    When ATM lifted its holding to 17%, SML then had permanent shareholders sitting on the majority of its shares.

    ATM’s buying spree pushed SML to prices that no model could explain but also pushed SML into a global index, triggering the brainless buying by the robots that control index funds. That led to even further upward pressure on the share price.

    The only motive to sell SML has been the excessive price available.
    NZ’s award-winning researchers believe the share price today is nearly double its current underlying worth.

    But index funds have no algorithm to assess value.

    Buying continues, so buying pressure further inflates the price. The index funds will report ‘’profits’’ from this process, if the price is pushed ever higher.

    Our clients were quick to spot the potential of SML and might return to buy more, if an event or a trend or an algorithm led to the index fund robots being required to sell at any price.

    But my expectation is that the buyers would look for the shares at the price indicated by qualitative research. That might indicate fair value at half of the current figure being paid by index funds.
    Of course that ‘’event’’ may not occur.

    But what SML and ATM do highlight is the absence of a value test in index buying.

    It also highlights the risks taken by short sellers – those who borrow shares, sell them, and gamble that they can repurchase the shares in the future at a lower price, to enable the return of the borrowed shares.

    Their qualitative research can be made to look silly by unthinking index purchasers.

    There will have been much short selling of ATM and SML.

    So far, the index buying will have lightened the pockets of the short selling gamblers.

    Short selling is not a game for the faint-hearted, or for those with limited access to funds.
    Last edited by winner69; 06-09-2018 at 06:03 PM.
    “ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”

  7. #1497
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    Few if any would try and make the argument that Synlait has below market average growth. In fact many would make the case their growth is well and truly above average, at least in the top quartile and I would argue there are very few companies listed on the NZX with such a clearly defined roadmap to future growth. We're in FY19 already and I find it quite interesting that according to average analyst forecast Synlait has a market average forward PE of 22 for FY19. Any wonder ATM has been increasing its stake ?

    I think even at $12.20 they're very good value indeed for the growth on offer relative to the market.
    Posted 28/8/18 This is really simple kindergarten stuff, investment 101.
    Chris Lee should stick to trying to understand fixed interest investments lest he make an even bigger fool of himself.
    Last edited by Beagle; 06-09-2018 at 07:34 PM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  8. #1498
    percy
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Chris Lee says
    https://www.chrislee.co.nz/taking-stock

    He doesn’t like us using his stuff but this is pretty good so I pasted the relevant parts anyhow

    THE stark difference between the bloated self-serving Fonterra board and executive, and the energy of Synlait Milk’s founder, key shareholders and executive needs minimal discussion from me.

    Fonterra, as a disproven business model, has made bleak investment decisions, been slow to spot market change, and displayed little vision when it declined to take up holdings in Synlait Milk and A2Milk, in their formative days.

    By contrast the progress and value-add at SML and ATM has been astonishing.

    Both companies would appear near the beginning of any book entitled ‘’Great NZ Corporate Successes’’.

    If the Otago opportunist, risk-taker and entrepreneur Howard Paterson had not suffocated as a result of mis-swallowing a potato crisp, he would surely be touted today as a key figure in ATM’s beginning and would be forgiven for those of his ventures that failed.

    John Penno’s modest aspirations to build Synlait Milk have been vastly surpassed in just seven years, in part because he has made the right connections with capital markets, enabling his business model to be nurtured through a period of great debt.

    Today SML’s relative debt has been normalised. I have little doubt it will be a dividend-payer within the next three years.

    It does face one problem. So few of its shares are now accessible, its ‘’free float’’ of shares must restrict its appeal to investors who focus on a fair price with any new investment. At $13, Synlait’s price can be justified only with the help of imagination.

    When ATM lifted its holding to 17%, SML then had permanent shareholders sitting on the majority of its shares.

    ATM’s buying spree pushed SML to prices that no model could explain but also pushed SML into a global index, triggering the brainless buying by the robots that control index funds. That led to even further upward pressure on the share price.

    The only motive to sell SML has been the excessive price available.
    NZ’s award-winning researchers believe the share price today is nearly double its current underlying worth.

    But index funds have no algorithm to assess value.

    Buying continues, so buying pressure further inflates the price. The index funds will report ‘’profits’’ from this process, if the price is pushed ever higher.

    Our clients were quick to spot the potential of SML and might return to buy more, if an event or a trend or an algorithm led to the index fund robots being required to sell at any price.

    But my expectation is that the buyers would look for the shares at the price indicated by qualitative research. That might indicate fair value at half of the current figure being paid by index funds.
    Of course that ‘’event’’ may not occur.

    But what SML and ATM do highlight is the absence of a value test in index buying.

    It also highlights the risks taken by short sellers – those who borrow shares, sell them, and gamble that they can repurchase the shares in the future at a lower price, to enable the return of the borrowed shares.

    Their qualitative research can be made to look silly by unthinking index purchasers.

    There will have been much short selling of ATM and SML.

    So far, the index buying will have lightened the pockets of the short selling gamblers.

    Short selling is not a game for the faint-hearted, or for those with limited access to funds.
    Thanks for posting W69.
    A very interesting read.
    Valid points that should be taken on board,and not be ignored.
    Last edited by percy; 06-09-2018 at 07:51 PM.

  9. #1499
    ShareTrader Legend Beagle's Avatar
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    With all due respect Percy I don't think you have ever made a proper attempt to look at Synlait or ATM and have missed some tremendous gains and will continue to miss further outstanding gains in the years ahead simply because I think you feel the gains have been excessive and its too late to come on board and join the party.
    Its terribly easy for people who have missed the gains in these two fabulous stocks to leap upon an "opinion piece" masquerading as news, like this to seek ratification of their confirmation bias.
    The two top performing stocks of the NZX50 this year and neither are expensive on a FY19 forward PE basis ands especially not on a forward FY20 basis taking in to account their historical growth and outstanding growth prospects.

    Highly likely Synlait becomes a takeover target sometime in the next few years in my opinion for reasons previously stated, none of which have been observed by or attempted to be understood by Chris Lee. You know how Craigs did an amateur job on analyzing STU...this effort by Chris Lee is far worse.
    Last edited by Beagle; 06-09-2018 at 08:40 PM.
    Ecclesiastes 11:2: “Divide your portion to seven, or even to eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth.
    Ben Graham - In the short run the market is a voting machine but in the long run the market is a weighing machine

  10. #1500
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    I liked how the new ATM boss put it: "the dairy cabinet". ATM, and by default SML hasnt even begun to fill the cabinet with A2 milk based product. Walk into any supermarket and look at how much real estate traditional milk products take up. We are talking acres. Now imagine some of this with A2
    Last edited by minimoke; 06-09-2018 at 08:49 PM.

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