sharetrader
Page 3 of 151 FirstFirst 12345671353103 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 3017
  1. #41
    Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    1,883

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerHamilton View Post
    Bright paid $82m for 51% of the equity of Synlait Milk in 2011 ... have they had a 15% annualized return ? Assume they have that would make there equity now worth $108m , Synlait Ltd's stake would be worth $105m. Assume they raise a fresh say $80m ... the value is approaching $300m ....

    Anybody know if $300m would get them straight into the NZX50 ?
    Hi FH , Think there is a methodology ike it has to be 10 % larger for 3 months than the smallest company in the index. You will probably be able to find this on the NZX website somewhere.

  2. #42
    Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    3,164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerHamilton View Post
    Anybody know if $300m would get them straight into the NZX50 ?
    This thread is a B!tch to search for but is worth its weight in gold:

    http://www.sharetrader.co.nz/showthr...dex+components

    In short, $300m would get it in at about place 40 but remember MRP, Meridian and Z are to be added in the same timeframe. From memory, you have to place 45th or above to get in (to stop constant changing at the bottom ranks).
    Free delivery worldwide with Book Depository http://www.bookdepository.co.uk

  3. #43
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerHamilton View Post
    Bright paid $82m for 51% of the equity of Synlait Milk in 2011 ... have they had a 15% annualized return ?
    15% annualised return? Bright Dairy would not like be diluted for their share holding if the return is that high. When the controlling shareholder does not want to put more money into Synlait Milk it is a sufficient indication that future is not so bright.

    Some expects the same happy story of Fonterra share floating happen to Synlait Milk. But they are different companies, not only in size but also in performance.

  4. #44
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stoploss View Post
    Hi FH , Think there is a methodology ike it has to be 10 % larger for 3 months than the smallest company in the index. You will probably be able to find this on the NZX website somewhere.
    Just had a quick look , doesn't jump out at me but did notice that the free float is quite important ...

    Bright
    Mitsui
    Penno
    Dingle
    MacLean

    Those five shareholder will probably hold around 60-65% of the shares so it will be interesting to see if the get in the NZX50. I guess it also depends on how much fresh capital they are after. Still no word on that , which is a little odd. Maybe they need to wait to see how many existing shareholders in Synlait Limited will want to sell into the IPO ?

  5. #45
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Today's payout foercast from Fonterra will be being put into the spreadsheets at Synlait IPO HQ as we speak to give implied returns for next season. This obviously is Synlait Milk's biggest COGS and is crucial for the forcasting of future returns. The falling dollar over the last month is obviously great news but a starting price of $7.00 might be a bit of a surprise. This season ( 2012/13 ) payout staying put will be great news for the current year P&L which may well help the shares to IPO at the upper end of the range when it is set.

    Waiting for the IM with baited breath ....

  6. #46
    Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    3,164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerHamilton View Post
    Today's payout foercast from Fonterra will be being put into the spreadsheets at Synlait IPO HQ as we speak to give implied returns for next season. This obviously is Synlait Milk's biggest COGS and is crucial for the forcasting of future returns. The falling dollar over the last month is obviously great news but a starting price of $7.00 might be a bit of a surprise. This season ( 2012/13 ) payout staying put will be great news for the current year P&L which may well help the shares to IPO at the upper end of the range when it is set.

    Waiting for the IM with baited breath ....
    Considering the different ownership structures of synlait vs Fonterra, are should payouts be similar. ie. to what extent does the milk payout price reflect a return for the ownership of fonterra (eg. Milk price = $4, return on milk power processing = $3)
    Free delivery worldwide with Book Depository http://www.bookdepository.co.uk

  7. #47
    Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    3,164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerHamilton View Post
    I guess it also depends on how much fresh capital they are after. Still no word on that , which is a little odd.
    I dont think they are allowed to say until a prospectus is issued.
    Free delivery worldwide with Book Depository http://www.bookdepository.co.uk

  8. #48
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    The vast majority of Fonterra's profit comes from low value add dairy products , WMP,Skim,Cheese,Butter etc
    Synlait's whole point of difference is that they are headed towards high value infant formula and nutritionals making up a big proportion of the revenue. Fonterra might build a couple of infant formula capable driers but really they have set their stall out to control the global commodity market ( to which they do a great job for NZ ). However as the 90% Gorilla in the room they do effectively control all the other independent's cost of the basic raw material ( liquid milk from the farmgate ) and so Synlait will be kind of hostage for the near term at least to the Fonterra payout ...

  9. #49
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    114

    Default

    Their plan to produce lactoferrin should give profits a boost if they can do it.

  10. #50
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Agreed, moves like this do "move the needle" for Synlait. For Fonterra it is just not worth it, literally a drop in the ocean for them. That is Synlait's key point of difference and should make the float a big success

  11. #51
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    104

    Default

    I don't follow FH logic that an improved milk price is good for Synlait Milk float. It should be good for (Unlisted) Synlait Farms Ltd. but the reality here has also been that Synlait Farms on Unlisted has been a total failure in terms of improving liquidity--3 transactions at 35% discount and now only one very small bidder at 40% discount to asset backing.And that was the position even before a float of Milk was raised. The 3 substantial private holders of Milk and Farms haven't then achieved any access to funds which it seems Milk needs and which has been a continuing difficulty for Milk.I would have thought a full float of Farms might have more appeal to the market than Milk remove the current discount Farms is suffering and give the principal shareholders some breathing space.

  12. #52
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1leon View Post
    I don't follow FH logic that an improved milk price is good for Synlait Milk float. It should be good for (Unlisted) Synlait Farms Ltd. but the reality here has also been that Synlait Farms on Unlisted has been a total failure in terms of improving liquidity--3 transactions at 35% discount and now only one very small bidder at 40% discount to asset backing.And that was the position even before a float of Milk was raised. The 3 substantial private holders of Milk and Farms haven't then achieved any access to funds which it seems Milk needs and which has been a continuing difficulty for Milk.I would have thought a full float of Farms might have more appeal to the market than Milk remove the current discount Farms is suffering and give the principal shareholders some breathing space.

    I didn't say that a high payout was good for Synlait Milk ... I do think this years profit will be very good however based on the current Fonterra payout. I reckon Synlait have probably outsold them and outhedged them so look for some big numbers in the prospectus for 12/13.
    Agreed SNLF Unlisted experience is nothing to write home about but at least over 100k share have traded but it is disappointing that the day after a Fonterra announcement of a $7 payout for next season not a single Kiwi out of 4.3m of us is interesting in putting a bid in for a pure dairy farming enterprise. Nodoubt there a re a few bids for Restaurant Brands , a company that sells crap food and ****ty coffee ... go figure !!
    Last edited by FarmerHamilton; 30-05-2013 at 05:27 PM.

  13. #53
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerHamilton View Post
    I didn't say that a high payout was good for Synlait Milk ... I do think this years profit will be very good however based on the current Fonterra payout. I reckon Synlait have probably outsold them and outhedged them so look for some big numbers in the prospectus for 12/13.
    Agreed SNLF Unlisted experience is nothing to write home about but at least over 100k share have traded but it is disappointing that the day after a Fonterra announcement of a $7 payout for next season not a single Kiwi out of 4.3m of us is interesting in putting a bid in for a pure dairy farming enterprise. Nodoubt there a re a few bids for Restaurant Brands , a company that sells crap food and ****ty coffee ... go figure !!
    I seem to have misconstrued the basis of your enthusiasm. Whilst I also share your enthusiasm for Farms (and hope I haven't misinterpreted those posts) of the 115,000 shares traded on Unlisted you did concede on the one substantial trade that "it would be a coincidence if the buyer wanted exactly 60,000" so it might be that there have only been 55000 shares really traded. I do know at least one Kiwi in 4.3m has genuinely bought! As someone who has been on Unlisted for many years I am not persauded it works at all well in either liquidity or value. I rather doubt any major shareholder would be interested in quiting at the discounts minnows have to accept. Unlisted then tends to be a self defeating circle. I have greatly appreciated your forthright posts on Synlait particularly showing you have real skin in the investment game.

  14. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1leon View Post
    I seem to have misconstrued the basis of your enthusiasm. Whilst I also share your enthusiasm for Farms (and hope I haven't misinterpreted those posts) of the 115,000 shares traded on Unlisted you did concede on the one substantial trade that "it would be a coincidence if the buyer wanted exactly 60,000" so it might be that there have only been 55000 shares really traded. I do know at least one Kiwi in 4.3m has genuinely bought! As someone who has been on Unlisted for many years I am not persauded it works at all well in either liquidity or value. I rather doubt any major shareholder would be interested in quiting at the discounts minnows have to accept. Unlisted then tends to be a self defeating circle. I have greatly appreciated your forthright posts on Synlait particularly showing you have real skin in the investment game.

    I understand from someone in the know that the shareholders of Synlait Ltd have approved the proposed in specie distribution of the Synlait Milk shares held by Synlait Limited. So the Bright 51% / Synlait Ltd 49% structure is about to become Bright 51% / about 100 other holders 49%. There will be some of those 100 holders who may wish to exit into the IPO ( they have this option ) so I guess the number of holders and the percentage they wish to sell may well be one of the factors determining the size of the IPO ....

    With the market looking a bit iffy at present their timing of the IPO may have been a couple of months too late ... ??? Collapsing NZ$ will be good news though as 100% of Synlait Milks revenue is probably generated in other currencies besides the Kiwi$ ( NZD below 80c now , first time for many many months )
    Last edited by FarmerHamilton; 01-06-2013 at 12:21 PM.

  15. #55
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerHamilton View Post
    I understand from someone in the know that the shareholders of Synlait Ltd have approved the proposed in specie distribution of the Synlait Milk shares held by Synlait Limited. So the Bright 51% / Synlait Ltd 49% structure is about to become Bright 51% / about 100 other holders 49%. There will be some of those 100 holders who may wish to exit into the IPO ( they have this option ) so I guess the number of holders and the percentage they wish to sell may well be one of the factors determining the size of the IPO ....

    With the market looking a bit iffy at present their timing of the IPO may have been a couple of months too late ... ??? Collapsing NZ$ will be good news though as 100% of Synlait Milks revenue is probably generated in other currencies besides the Kiwi$ ( NZD below 80c now , first time for many many months )
    Those around long enough to recall the sorry history of RJI Limited later Trans Tasman Properties (TTP) and then follow through Fisher &Paykell both ending in compulsory acquistions and the current PGW debacle might seriously wonder if having a majority Chinese shareholder spells the end to an investment opportunity rather than any incentive to take part in an IPO. TTP took a tortuous route to extingushing small holders, Haier had to be forced to up their offer and PGW is about the worst its been after non sensically paying a dividend to meet the needs of Agria.

  16. #56
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Bright have indicated they will not participate in the IPO so their current 51% stake will be diluted down to probably near 40% so I am assuming they are happy long term investors, I would guess they have an off take agreement which guarantees them a certain tonnage of product at market prices each season. They will also go from having board control to just a representation. If the IPO is big enough to get them in the NZX50 then tracker finds will need to buy and you'd have to think they will be on the radar of the big AgriFunds around the world .

  17. #57
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerHamilton View Post
    Bright have indicated they will not participate in the IPO so their current 51% stake will be diluted down to probably near 40% so I am assuming they are happy long term investors, I would guess they have an off take agreement which guarantees them a certain tonnage of product at market prices each season. They will also go from having board control to just a representation. If the IPO is big enough to get them in the NZX50 then tracker finds will need to buy and you'd have to think they will be on the radar of the big AgriFunds around the world .
    There is a view, with which I don't entirely agree, that 30% is effective control. I wouldn't be entirely sanguine about "probably 40%" if that is in fact what Bright will reduce to. I am very conscious I risk being acused of sino phobia and would be pleased if anyone could provide any examples of Chinese NZ long term investment for the continuing prosperity of all shareholders. If you throw Fonterra ( NZ infant formulas quality again a live issue) and Zespri scandels into the mix,the investment future tends more to the highly speculative than than conservative!
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/2...bad-news-china

  18. #58
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1leon View Post
    There is a view, with which I don't entirely agree, that 30% is effective control. I wouldn't be entirely sanguine about "probably 40%" if that is in fact what Bright will reduce to. I am very conscious I risk being acused of sino phobia and would be pleased if anyone could provide any examples of Chinese NZ long term investment for the continuing prosperity of all shareholders. If you throw Fonterra ( NZ infant formulas quality again a live issue) and Zespri scandels into the mix,the investment future tends more to the highly speculative than than conservative!
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/2...bad-news-china
    I agree 40% is still a large shareholding , but I think Bright are reasonably "hand's off" with the day to day management of the stainless steel and leave that to the local experts. They may have more of a say in strategic decisions like the one to go into Lactoferrin , but even then I imagine management have a fair degree of autonomy.

    Nice rally in US Stockmarket this a.m. but the Kiwi$ up over 1c ... very volatile the little NZD at present!

  19. #59
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    192

    Default NZD/USD Fx rate

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerHamilton View Post
    I agree 40% is still a large shareholding , but I think Bright are reasonably "hand's off" with the day to day management of the stainless steel and leave that to the local experts. They may have more of a say in strategic decisions like the one to go into Lactoferrin , but even then I imagine management have a fair degree of autonomy.

    Nice rally in US Stockmarket this a.m. but the Kiwi$ up over 1c ... very volatile the little NZD at present!

    I would have thought if the IPO prospectus was on the printing presses then the company would have probably used $0.80c for its FX assumtion for 13/14 season. With the kiwi hitting 11 months lows there may be a need for some re-calculating of the numbers by investors. I imagine with $500m revenue in USD for next season a 1-2c move will be highly leveraged to the bottom line. The hedge book and FX forcasts will make for interesting reading. Just like F&P Healthcare trades very much on the FX movements of the Kiwi/USD cross so may Synlait Milk ...
    Last edited by FarmerHamilton; 10-06-2013 at 12:20 PM.

  20. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Auckland
    Posts
    1,007

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •