Gold

[shasta]

There seems to be some mysticism around 'cryptos' that IMO is a veneer used to justify their current price.

It's like you have to understand 'the matrix' behind these things to truly be able to comment on them.

Well I don't buy that.

The mystique and the reasoning put forward is fluff, but it is used as a way of shouting down anyone who would warn against this crazy speculative bubble: "Hey, you don't understand it, therefore you can't comment. We who get it, we can speak on it informatively and tell everyone how valuable it is and why it will be going much, much higher".

Anyone who owns Bitcoin's (or other crypto's) will find the above to be a very valuable tool in telling others to shut-up. It is a cloak of assumed intellectual superiority wielded to fuel a speculative bubble.

The bottom line is that there is nothing of intrinsic value at the core of Bitcoin. It does not have the backing of 'full faith and credit', it is not backed by PM's, it is not a PM itself.

Whoever put the 'Bitcoin' proposition together has endeavoured to appropriate the properties of Gold and dress Bitcoin up in them. 'Mining' Bitcoin, "hey, it's scarce", photo's of 'physical Bitcoins' styled out of Golden metal.....pretty obvious what is going on here.

This operates a bit like a religion. When it has very few people engaging with it is a 'cult', now it has millions going nuts it is treated as a respectable entity.

When you start receiving unsolicited spam email raving on bout bitcoin, and you see paid ads everywhere on the internet stating 5 dollars in Etherum now could be worth 1 million in 2 years, the bubble/hype has hit manic propositions, just like MLM, ponzi schemes etc, those in at the start ramping the pants of it will make money, then the greater fool theory/herd mentality kicks in, selling out into the new money.

i have shares in ISX - payment technology software platform, for online secure transactions, this type of investment that is generating income could benefit should cryptos ever become mainstream and regulated as it really only has Paypal as a direct competitor.

i dont understand bitcoin/cryptos, nor how its caught on to such hysteria proportions in the media, there's money to be made for sure, at the far speculative end of the market, being a small percentage of any portfolio.

Im not adverse to taking risks/trading when the right opportunity presents itself, bitcoin at 1000 each might have been worth a punt but at 15000, is it likely to go up and be another 15 bagger to 225,000 each now? Those who have made there in this would already be out/mostly sold out.

Meanwhile, ill hold onto my gold shares and physical silver and await the inevitable upcoming crash/correction, probably starting with bitcoins etc all bubbles end in tears for those last in the door...

[Logen Ninefingers]

When you start receiving unsolicited spam email raving on bout bitcoin, and you see paid ads everywhere on the internet stating 5 dollars in Etherum now could be worth 1 million in 2 years, the bubble/hype has hit manic propositions, just like MLM, ponzi schemes etc, those in at the start ramping the pants of it will make money, then the greater fool theory/herd mentality kicks in, selling out into the new money.

i have shares in ISX - payment technology software platform, for online secure transactions, this type of investment that is generating income could benefit should cryptos ever become mainstream and regulated as it really only has Paypal as a direct competitor.

i dont understand bitcoin/cryptos, nor how its caught on to such hysteria proportions in the media, there's money to be made for sure, at the far speculative end of the market, being a small percentage of any portfolio.

Im not adverse to taking risks/trading when the right opportunity presents itself, bitcoin at 1000 each might have been worth a punt but at 15000, is it likely to go up and be another 15 bagger to 225,000 each now? Those who have made there in this would already be out/mostly sold out.

Meanwhile, ill hold onto my gold shares and physical silver and await the inevitable upcoming crash/correction, probably starting with bitcoins etc all bubbles end in tears for those last in the door...

If you refer to Bitcoin as a 'token', you get told "no, it's a ledger entry in a virtual book". Meanwhile someone else attempting to explain it states that the 'mining' part is a complex validation process gone through when transferring a Bitcoin to someone else. (Pretty sure this is wrong, btw).

Currency should be above all a very simple and effective means of making payment. How do you but a loaf of bread with a $15,000 'Bitcoin'(?)

Imo, this is much worse and more insane that the much-mocked 'Tulip-mania' of 1600's Holland. At least the tulip bulbs had a nominal intrinsic value, at least they were a physical 'something'!!

Interestingly, if Bitcoin and crypto's are now seen as a 'safe haven' alternative to Gold, then undoubtedly we will see a flight back to Gold when this - THE most ridiculous bubble in history - collapses.

[stevo1]

Gold has been degraded by the ether of futures options cfds etc which are not dissimilar to bitcoin in so much as nothing is behind the value other than people taking bets against each other (blockchain process does have value as a borderless ledger).Bitcoin is an invention of the "only" 21 million bitcoins to be on issue ever however Each bitcoin (BTC) is divisible to the 8th decimal place, so each BTC can be split into 100,000,000 units. Each unit of bitcoin, or 0.00000001 bitcoin, is called a satoshi. A Satoshi is the smallest unit of Bitcoin.So much for the numbers.
At the moment bitcoin miners are using the equivalent of the entire electricity use of Ireland to power machines for "mining". The projections are that if that increases at the present rate then by 2020 the"miners"will use the amount of electricity equivalent to the ENTIRE world output.That is without including crypto copycats mining other cryptos. That of itself dooms it to eventual failure.
The irony in all of this is that its inception and relative acceptance is to step away from printing money(Quantitive easing) and the banks ability to control other peoples money. (bail outs from governments to banks,bail in by confiscation of depositors money by banks)
because it is a peer to peer there are virtually no controls on where or who money using bitcoin goes to
The gold standard was replaced by fiat currency .Bitcoin is an attempt to replace fiat currency hence (the new gold standard tag) revolutionary in that respect.

[Logen Ninefingers]

Gold has been degraded by the ether of futures options cfds etc which are not dissimilar to bitcoin in so much as nothing is behind the value other than people taking bets against each other (blockchain process does have value as a borderless ledger).Bitcoin is an invention of the "only" 21 million bitcoins to be on issue ever however Each bitcoin (BTC) is divisible to the 8th decimal place, so each BTC can be split into 100,000,000 units. Each unit of bitcoin, or 0.00000001 bitcoin, is called a satoshi. A Satoshi is the smallest unit of Bitcoin.So much for the numbers.
At the moment bitcoin miners are using the equivalent of the entire electricity use of Ireland to power machines for "mining". The projections are that if that increases at the present rate then by 2020 the"miners"will use the amount of electricity equivalent to the ENTIRE world output.That is without including crypto copycats mining other cryptos. That of itself dooms it to eventual failure.
The irony in all of this is that its inception and relative acceptance is to step away from printing money(Quantitive easing) and the banks ability to control other peoples money. (bail outs from governments to banks,bail in by confiscation of depositors money by banks)
because it is a peer to peer there are virtually no controls on where or who money using bitcoin goes to
The gold standard was replaced by fiat currency .Bitcoin is an attempt to replace fiat currency hence (the new gold standard tag) revolutionary in that respect.

A 'Satoshi' you say(?) This becomes more bizarre the more I read about it.

Gold itself hasn't been degraded. Gold is still Gold, the metal - with it's own unique properties which make invaluable for all the uses humanity puts it to.

The PTB can intervene with the futures options etc; still - Gold got to USD 1900 an oz in the past, so surging demand can overwhelm manipulators and shorters.

The Gold standard still exists via the idea that it is unpegged from the USD and floating, which is self-evident: 1 oz of Gold can be exchanged for USD 1244.13 as of this moment.

The idea that Gold and it's 5,000 year history has been KO'ed permanently be this 'Bitcoin' flash-in-the-pan is not credible. There have been a plethora of challengers in the past, and Gold has survived everything from being banned from private ownership in the US under FDR, being labelled a "barbarous relic" by John Maynard Keynes in 1923, and taking the US off the (official) Gold standard.

[Crypto Crude]

everyone is entitled to their opinion... far enough... fundamentally this is like nothing that has come before it... so dont try to value it like that...
this is the digital age... if you think about it everything is all just data ...the value of facebook is just the value of its data...lol.. us... and how to market to it... how we communicate is all data... there are many aspects to this which make it more complex....
...
everybody wants us dollars... but what are they backed by?... they are backed by huge debt and gold and so on that doesnt even exist... the fed prints money as it chooses... its all a rothschild invention...is that not a scam in itself?... I dont then hear shasta saying "I dont want us dollars then"... or new zealand dollars...
...
many coins are coming up with real world applications... bad coins are and should reflect the value of the coin...
there is a lot of speculation and coins can easily become worth more than they should be... some people are losing lots of money making bad investments... this goes down too...
there are plenty of full speculative coins and will be seen if they are any use or not....
altcoins are just starting to run theres a whole lot of them up 10000% this year and still turning over...
ethereum is now near all time highs...
perhaps you should come over to the off market discusion thread...
weeeeeeee

[stevo1]

Good on all the people who have made a fortune with cryptocurrencies. Shame about the gold price though. If crypto's are a bubble and some cryptocurrencies crash and go to zero it might give people pause for thought about govt backed fiat currencies and how these are being debased by things such as quantitative easing and negative interest rates. How simple it has been to add to the money supply. If crypto's can go to zero theoretically so could fiat currencies if people lose faith in them.

Aaron I can only agree. It has been a LOOOOONG time since I have bought gold until now.In a lot of ways cryptos are a backlash against the fiat money system,quantitative easing,bank bailouts and the possibility of bank bail ins (using depositors money in the event of failure)etc etc.Cryptos are not gold or silver and I do not think that they will replace them.If there is a backlash against fiat and cryptos where is there left to go????

The value of gold has been well and truly undermined by the paper gold market (futures,derivatives ,CFDs)which is massively bigger than the physical metal.Bitcoin touted as the "new" gold and now traded on the futures market.These people are betting on air and paper---- physically holding nothing

[JBmurc]

Yes when you look through recent and longer-term monetary history of the Master Central Bank "FEDERAL RESERVE" its always had an anti PM stance >>(outside Alan Greenspan in more recent years)

Gold was the enemy to me— Paul Volcker, former chairman, Federal Reserve

Alan Greenspan- calls gold the "ultimate form of money" and warns that gold could displace fiat currencies if "sovereign" governments experience a financial crisis.

Greenspan has come out in favor of a more sound monetary policy, including a favorable view of gold as the world’s reserve currency:
“I view gold as the primary global currency. It is the only currency, along with silver, that does not require a counterparty signature

the Gold reserve act 1934>
Section 2 of the act transferred ownership of all monetary gold in the United States to the US Treasury. Monetary gold included all coins and bullion held by individuals and institutions, including the Federal Reserve. In return, individuals and institutions received currency at a rate of $35 per ounce of gold.

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
— Henry Ford

-the late Congressman Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee in the 1930s, described the Fed in the following words:

“Some people think that the Federal Reserve Banks are United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and predatory money lenders.”

[Crypto Crude]

steveo...
if bitcoin was priced at golds market cap each bitcoin would be $400,000 each...

[stevo1]

steveo...
if bitcoin was priced at golds market cap each bitcoin would be $400,000 each...

At a price of US$1,250 per troy ounce, reached on 16 August 2017, one tonne of gold has a value of approximately US$40.2 million. The total value of all gold ever mined would exceed US$7.5 trillion at that valuation and using WGC 2017 estimates.
Too true and if stevo1coin at golds market cap each stevo1coin would be $750,000,000.
So actually WHAT IS YOUR POINT .Is it the stevo1coin is underpriced??
Though it has just doubled again to $800,000
So much of this is a nonsense,playing with 1s and zeros in cyberspace for an invented "currency" the blockchain is a great ledger accounting method but it is only that at this stage.A herd driven greed induced mania, when in the REAL world for millennium humans have relied on the tangible ,fungible and trade able metals

[airedale]

Gold at $1288 overnight and knocking on the $1300 resistance ceiling {again}. Any break through will depend on further US$ index weakening.