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Thread: Gold

  1. #5301
    Senior Member stevo1's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Skol;425252]That is a genuine load of bollocks, a conspiracy theory and a goldbug invention, bet you can't prove it, the USA destroyed their chemical weapons on Johnston Island and virtually all known chemical weapons in the USA have been disposed of.


    Let them go to it, no one wants to help the Syrians do away with a dictator, so they'll have to suffer. Dictators don't resign, most come to a very sticky end and so will Al-Assad, it'll just take a few more hundred thousand casualties which I'm sure won't bother you one iota Stevo.

    Skoly you are getting a bit vitriolic there.your first statement indicates that you believe America's word.
    There are numerous and long examples of the USA saying things that are just plain lies and being directly responsible for the deaths of LARGE numbers of people.
    You are obliviously have not been paying attention during your lifetime(SIT UP STAIGHT AND PAY ATTENTION SKOLY) --- when it has suited USA's purpose they have supported Saddam Hussien,mujahideen(now called taliban),Manuel Noriaga,EtC,ETC
    The USA has supported any number of dictators since WW2 and are culpable but unaccountable.
    POG and POO reacts to upheaval amongst other things.
    IMO there has not been a justifiable war since WW2.
    I certainly DO NOT WISH TO SEE ANY PEOPLE NEEDLESSLY DIE Or BE MAIMED.
    "Goldbugs thrive on misery and conflict" What absolute nonsence

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    Stevo,

    I knew it, a goldbug conspiracy theory without a scrap of evidence, but that's nothing new for the goldbug conspiracy craze, the latest idiot theory being the 'false flag' bollocks. I'm not sure about the IQ of some of the goldbugs.
    Last edited by Skol; 01-09-2013 at 10:59 AM.

  3. #5303
    Senior Member stevo1's Avatar
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    Skol as I have stated before I am not a goldbug but do hold some as a form of insurance .Lowest entry price US$39 yes not a typo US$39 (1970) highest price entry $500. Have never sold any of it.
    A goldbug is not what I am. Gold has its many spruickers and nutters .
    Conversely it seems to have equally diametrically opposed nutters
    You keep stating that there is not a scrap of evidence,for my previous statements.
    Either you are blind or you just do not want to see the evidence is there just as there where WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ .oh thats right there werent any.
    Something like 350000 Iraqis killed in Iraq war
    The US supplied the chemical weapons originally.
    Subsequently US is left with its own causualties of the returned servicemen and the inherent physical and psychological damage.
    SIT UP STRAIGHT AND CONCENTRATE SKOL its all there if you take time to get off your hobby horse and use you single eye to see.
    Anyway good luck skol on your crusade against the goldbugs :0)

  4. #5304
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    Stevo,

    Goldbugs believe in conspiracy theories, like the one that the USA supplied the gas for killing the Kurds. You obviously have no evidence to support such a looney theory but that's not unusual in the narrow goldbug world, why let a good story get ruined by the facts. Actually it's hilarious, some of the theories are so nutty that some observers believe that conspiracy theorists are mentally ill.

    HAARP, chemtrails, the Illuminati, the Moon landing was filmed at Area 51, the USA gassed the Syrians, 911 was perpetrated by the CIA, it all smacks of paranoia, so there may well be some evidence that conspiracy theorists are mentally ill. And goldbug websites are full of it. I can tell that many of these posters aren't intelligent people, I firmly believe many goldbugs are indeed, in need of some kind of treatment.

    There is much conjecture about conspiracy theories and their propagators, but whether they are mentally ill or not, conspiracy theorists feel special, they have the inside scoop that no one else has, and if it looks as if the conspiracy theory they are pushing is in danger of being discredited, they'll just add another layer to it.

    One goldbug nutter I debated with believes that condensation trails from aircraft are caused by special chemicals in Aviation fuel to brainwash us. When I suggested that the filters in the engines would block when this particular compound was added, I was told that the engines are fitted with special CIA designed filters.

    And right on cue, as soon as gold took a dive below $1,400, the 'manipulation' cranks were on the keyboard.

    http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org...s-fill-a-need/

    ================================


    Conspiracy Theorists are Just Like the Westboro Baptists

    Posted by Mark on April 17, 2013

    And Alex Jones and Mike Adams are their Fred Phelps. It’s a wonder that Anonymous doesn’t retaliate against these ghouls as well as against Westboro who are planning to picket the Boston Marathon funerals.

    Why are the the same thing? Because they’re all ghouls, and they all use any tragic event to bolster their warped, abhorrent world view no matter what the facts are, and no matter how offensive to the victims.

    Within minutes, with no one knowing any facts, Jones claims this is a false flag attack. The only appropriate response to an event like this, within the first minutes and hours, is to hope the first responders and emergency personnel can get to and rescue as many as possible. But to the ghoul, every event such as this is another chance to push their agenda of hate. For the Westboro Baptists, similarly not knowing anything, they think this is further evidence that God hates America because we tolerate homosexuality. For the conspiracy theorist, all traumatic events instantly become incorporated into their evidence that the government/FBI/CIA whatever is faking them/planning them to increase their control over us. No matter what the evidence is, or will be, it will just be further sealed into this fixed, false belief. Avicenna at FtB has a good post (warning for graphic images) of examples of how despicable this behavior can be. I think one of the most grotesque acts yet was one of the CTs asking the governor of Massachusetts if this was a false flag. How stupid and awful a person do you have to be to ask that question in the wake of such a tragedy? Here is the governor, trying to address a crisis, and some scumbag is basically asking (1) is the US government randomly murdering innocent US citizens (2) is he in on it? To the governor’s immense credit, he didn’t immediately jump into the crowd and start strangling the questioner. CTs were so awful as to accuse the victims of just being actors, of the whole thing being staged, or the whole thing actually being performed by government (read your fellow US citizens), including Mike Adams’ immediate blaming of the event on government agencies. What is their evidence? They have no evidence. They just hate without reason.

    These conspiracy theorists are just another type of hatemonger. This event is just the latest proof. No matter what the reality is, what the facts are, every event just becomes further proof of their warped and hateful world view. Never mind that it casts civil servants and law enforcement as the murderers, the victims as liars, and the rest of us as fools, that’s what they believe. We shouldn’t continue to tolerate this as just fringe wackiness. This is hate mongering, and the worst kind. It’s hate mongering in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy, designed to make us hate and fear our fellow citizens, those trying to help us, and those who were hurt the most. It’s hate and divisiveness when we should be pulling together rather than apart. It’s no different from what the Westboro Baptists church does. And Alex Jones and Mike Adams are just like Fred Phelps.

    =============================

    Hear, hear!

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...piracy-theoies
    Last edited by Skol; 01-09-2013 at 04:57 PM.

  5. #5305
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    Wikipedia has a bit of background. It seems that a lot of the precursor chemicals for the 1988 attack were sourced from parts of Europe etc, but that one critical chemical for mustard gas was sourced from the USA. And that America knew Iraq had chemical weapons.

    International sources for technology and chemical precursors[edit source | editbeta]

    See also: Iraqi chemical weapons program
    The know-how and material for developing chemical weapons were obtained by Saddam's regime from foreign sources.[24] The largest suppliers of precursors for chemical weapons production were in Singapore (4,515 tons), the Netherlands (4,261 tons), Egypt (2,400 tons), India (2,343 tons), and West Germany (1,027 tons). One Indian company, Exomet Plastics, sent 2,292 tons of precursor chemicals to Iraq. The Singapore -based firm Kim Al-Khaleej, affiliated to the United Arab Emirates, supplied more than 4,500 tons of VX, sarin, and mustard gas precursors and production equipment to Iraq.[25] Dieter Backfisch, managing director of West German company Karl Kolb GmbH, was quoted by saying in 1989: "For people in Germany poison gas is something quite terrible, but this does not worry customers abroad."[24]
    The 2002 International Crisis Group (ICG) no. 136 "Arming Saddam: The Yugoslav Connection" concludes it was "tacit approval" by many world governments that led to the Iraqi regime being armed with weapons of mass destruction, despite sanctions, because of the ongoing Iranian conflict.
    On December 23, 2005, a Dutch court sentenced Frans van Anraat, a businessman who bought chemicals on the world market and sold them to Saddam's regime, to 15 years in prison. The court ruled that Saddam committed genocide against the people of Halabja;[26] this was the first time the Halabja attack was described as an act of genocide in a court ruling. In March 2008, the government of Iraq announced plans to take legal action against the suppliers of chemicals used in the poison gas attack.[27]
    Among the chemical precursors provided to Iraq from American companies such as Alcolac International and Phillips, was thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture mustard gas, according to leaked portions of Iraq's "full, final and complete" disclosure of the sources for its weapons programs. The provision of chemical precursors from United States companies to Iraq was enabled by a Ronald Reagan Administration policy that removed Iraq from the State Department's list of State Sponsors of Terrorism. Alcolac was named as a defendant in the Aziz v. Iraq case presently pending in the United States District Court (Case No. 1:09-cv-00869-MJG). (Both companies have since undergone reorganization and Phillips, once a subsidiary of Phillips Petroleum is now part of ConocoPhillips, an American oil and discount fossil fuel company, while Alcolac International has since dissolved and reformed as Alcolac Inc.[28])
    Controversies[edit source | editbeta]

    Allegations of Iranian involvement[edit source | editbeta]

    See also: Iraq and weapons of mass destruction

    An original bomb casing used as flower pot at the Halabja Memorial Monument in 2011


    The U.S. State Department, in the immediate aftermath of the incident, took the official position based on examination of available evidence that Iran was partly to blame.[15] A preliminary Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) study at the time reported that it was Iran that was responsible for the attack, an assessment which was used subsequently by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for much of the early 1990s. The CIA's senior political analyst for the Iran-Iraq war, Stephen C. Pelletiere, co-authored an unclassified analysis of the war[29] which contained a brief summary of the DIA study's key points. The CIA altered its position radically in the late 1990s and cited Halabja frequently in its evidence of weapons of mass destruction before the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Pelletiere claimed that a fact that has not been successfully challenged is that Iraq was not known to have possessed the cyanide-based blood agents determined to have been responsible for the condition of the bodies that were examined,[30] and that blue discolorations around the mouths of the victims and in their extremities,[31] pointed to Iranian-used gas as the culprit. Leo Casey writing in Dissent Magazine argued that "none of the authors of these documents [...] had any expertise in medical and forensic sciences, and their speculation doesn't stand up to minimal scrutiny."[32]
    Joost Hiltermann, who was the principal researcher for Human Rights Watch between 1992–1994, conducted a two-year study of the massacre, including a field investigation in northern Iraq. According to his analysis of thousands of captured Iraqi secret police documents and declassified U.S. government documents, as well as interviews with scores of Kurdish survivors, senior Iraqi defectors and retired U.S. intelligence officers, it is clear that Iraq carried out the attack on Halabja, and that the United States, fully aware of this, nevertheless accused Iran, Iraq's enemy in a fierce war, of being partly responsible for the attack.[15] This research concluded there were numerous other gas attacks, unquestionably perpetrated against the Kurds by the Iraqi armed forces. According to Hiltermann, the literature on the Iran-Iraq war reflects a number of allegations of chemical weapons use by Iran, but these are "marred by a lack of specificity as to time and place, and the failure to provide any sort of evidence." Hiltermann called these allegations "mere assertions" and added that "no persuasive evidence of the claim that Iran was the primary culprit was ever presented."[33] An investigation conduced by Dr Jean Pascal Zanders, Project Leader of the Chemical and Biological Warfare Project at the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, into responsibility for the Halabja massacre also concluded in 2007 that Iraq was the culprit, and not Iran.[34]
    In August 2013, Foreign Policy charged, based on recently declassified CIA documents and interviews with former intelligence officials, that the U.S. had firm evidence of Iraqi chemical attacks beginning in 1983. Saddam's military also received intelligence assistance from the CIA in 1987 prior to the Iraqis' early 1988 launch of sarin attacks to stop the potentially decisive Iranian offensive to capture the southern city of Basra, which would result in a collapse of Iraqi military and Iranian victory.[35]
    Although it would be very startling if not, it appears the moon landings really did occur.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-p..._Moon_landings
    Last edited by elZorro; 01-09-2013 at 08:41 PM.

  6. #5306
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    Goldbugs should refrain from reading today's Herald and checking the latest round of house price rises in Auckland, as much as 40% in the last 2 years.

    Last 2 years:

    Gold -28%
    Silver -45%.

    Looks like the Syria premium is off, gold down $12 at the open.

    Could be a bubble in AKL. I've just been approached by an agent, my neighbour has been approached by a guy flying overhead in a helicopter, his neighbour has just sold to a dude who owns 2 large NZ companies and then he wanted to buy the adjoining neighbour's place as well, but he refused to sell because he had just bought it. My neighbour on the other side bought a few months ago and didn't negotiate, just paid the asking price. It's pretty manic.
    AKL needs 39,000 new houses which could have something to do with why they're sniffing around out here in the country.

    Despite endless warnings from hunkered-down goldbugs of a debt-fuelled Armageddon it hasn't arrived, things are positively rosy.
    Last edited by Skol; 02-09-2013 at 11:39 AM.

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    Skol, I think people would take you a lot more seriously if you stopped labeling anyone that doesn't agree with you a 'goldbug' or conspiracy theorist. I'm not saying goldbugs don't exist, they certainly do & I agree with Skol when it comes to some of the lunacy they espouse. However I am bullish gold due to the facts that are in front of me, such as ballooning debt in the West & Japan & the Asian appetite for gold. I don't need anything else to be bullish. Its patently obvious to me that the US, Europe & Japan are in the crapper & are trying anything & everything they can to drag themselves out whereas its the BRICs & Southeast Asia where the growth is coming from & will be for some time even though they will have their ups & downs. It is also these countries that seem to have a healthy appetite for gold ! And then there's Fort Knox... just kidding Skol, that last bit was for you haha

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    Daytr,

    Well there's plenty of conspiracy theorists here and I'm not trying for a moment to deter you from trying your hand at gold, however it seems to me that useful assets that provide a return are where it's at. Gold's had its day, the Chinese are leveraged to the nth degree and if the property market falls over there, they'll be selling gold as fast as they've bought it.
    Gold and silver are about the worst returns on Earth for the last 2 years, what's that mean to the trained mind?

    The world is pulling out of its slump, imo gold and silver will decline for the next 20 years if history's anything to go by and btw Daytr, the gold and silver charts of the last few years have mirrored EXACTLY the charts of 1980.

    The world doesn't work without debt, it can and will be managed, I've been waiting for years for the economic implosion and it hasn't happened and it's ironic and quite funny that for the last 2 years the gold doomsayers have made the worst returns, even a bank deposit's done better.

    You grossly underestimate the ability of powerful countries to get themselves out of trouble, we've been promised for years that the USA was going to crash and China would be the leading world power, it's bollocks, the USA will remain the commanding world power for years to come. The USA is capable of incredible feats if necessary and has the mental acumen to remain dominant, the Asian mindset is different and China may be on the brink of a Yugoslavia-style catastrophe.

    In WW2 the USA built, launched, and equipped an aircraft carrier every 2 weeks. The Mare Island Naval Shipyard in SFO built and launched a destroyer in 17 days. And that was 70 years ago.

    The money is going to be made in the USA, not in asia.
    Last edited by Skol; 02-09-2013 at 12:47 PM.

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    There's a couple of big if's there Skol. Although there are issues with the property market in China they are in almost a unique position that the government can step in if there was a collapse in property prices. Actually isn't that what the US did to bail out the banks in the US & Europe? LOL. Also in regards leverage yes I am sure there is, however when talking leverage how can you ignore the leverage in the US or Europe where debt levels are only ranking behind Japan? I agree things have improved somewhat in the US & there are signs that also Europe is improving marginally, however these are from extremely low bases & if you compare the numbers from the peak they are dire! I have a mate who has just returned from holidaying in Greece & he said that he has never seen it so bad, (he visits every year or so & is Greek) Youth unemployment in Greece has reached 68%! So things are a long way from being rosey in that part of the world. Spain isn't far behind...

    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
    Daytr,

    Well there's plenty of conspiracy theorists here and I'm not trying for a moment to deter you from trying your hand at gold, however it seems to me that useful assets that provide a return are where it's at. Gold's had its day, the Chinese are leveraged to the nth degree and if the property market falls over there, they'll be selling gold as fast as they've bought it.
    Gold and silver are about the worst returns on Earth for the last 2 years, what's that mean to the trained mind?

    The world is pulling out of its slump, imo gold and silver will decline for the next 20 years if history's anything to go by and btw Daytr, the gold and silver charts of the last few years have mirrored EXACTLY the charts of 1980.

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    Daytr,

    Yes, problems there in Europe, same as any household, you have to live within your means and they haven't, but as assets increase in price the debt burden will decrease, could take some time, but I don't see why gold will increase, the gold price also relies on sentiment, and that's on the wane.

    All the gold 'experts' have been wrong, I think it's hilarious as Mike Maloney, Peter Schiff, KWN, Silverbearcafe and all the others are still banging on about how they're right.

    As for China, they can't even build an aircraft carrier now, let alone 70 years ago.

    There's gonna be a gold conference in New Orleans in a few weeks Daytr, you should go, it promises to be the non-event of the decade. THere'll probably be a few poverty-stricken goldbugs there wanting to know what in the hell went wrong with $15,000 gold.

    Hahaha

    You'll be able to listen to such eminent (but probably poor) commentators such as Ron Paul who had most of his money in gold juniors and contrarian warnings like Peter Schiff and Rick Rule ($2,500 gold by 2013), not forgetting Pamela and Mary-Ann Aden ($3,000-$5,000 gold by the end of 2012) and Ian McAvity ($2,500-$3,000 gold by the end of 2012).

    BTW Daytr, twice in the 20th century the USA had more debt than it has now.

    No problem.
    Last edited by Skol; 02-09-2013 at 03:04 PM.

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