Gold

[McGyro]

So probably nobody knows. I could understand a price rise as investors shifted to a universally tradable comodity as a result of USA instability, but the possible reason for a drop has me foxed. Thanks for the insight.

[JBmurc]

GOLD posted its biggest daily percentage drop in more than two weeks on Tuesday following a massive Comex sell order and technical selling once prices fell below $1,300 an ounce. For the year, gold has shed about 23 percent of its value largely on fears over a U.S. stimulus cutback...
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...tdown/articles

So basically Big boy traders wanted to see the price south and made a very large short order ....we have seen many of these in the last few years most likely only the biggest bullion traders aka JPM ,BOA ,Goldmans,HSBC never selling for a profit more so wanting to push lower i.e not selling smaller amounts but instead trying their best to smash the price through tech levels aka $1300 last night perfect example went to $1277 now 24hrs later $1296......be the same if the major share holder decided to dump a large position on the market

CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton on September 20th:--(so the metals police won't be walking the beat)
​On September 30th, at the stroke of midnight, our country will face a government shutdown unless a continuing resolution to fund it is adopted. That would be grave news for consumers.
Under a shutdown scenario, government regulators will be handcuffed in our ability to go after crooks who are trying to evade our oversight and protection of markets.

[McGyro]

So a stimulus cutback would cause a gold price drop because of a reduction in USD availability (presumably increasing demand) ? It will take me a while to digest that.
From the second paragraph I infer that the Big boys want to drive the price down, presumably to create a stampede and then they will buy back at a lower price.
Have I got that right?

[JBmurc]

So a stimulus cutback would cause a gold price drop because of a reduction in USD availability (presumably increasing demand) ? It will take me a while to digest that.
From the second paragraph I infer that the Big boys want to drive the price down, presumably to create a stampede and then they will buy back at a lower price.
Have I got that right?

Well the Media tells us many things... in their words the ending of the stimulus would end the chances of higher inflation (we are told Gold increases in higher Inflation times) But us we seen there was no TAPER to the 85billion stimulus or look to be for this rest of this year ....? so this case gold is being pushed down on talk..

One way of thinking is......
On the major traders.. well worth doing a web search on... "JPMorgan illegal operations" ..these guys are up for muti billions in fines for illegal trading operations latest one could be 11 billion fine .....these guys are also major PM traders yet nothing has ever stuck ....I think there's a good reason as ..No FED chairman(or US leader) would want to see a higher Gold price as it has always undermines faith in the Fiat world reserve US dollar to the rest of the world(now that it no longer is backed by gold) i.e the Gold price is bit like a Insurance premium on your house etc the higher it goes the higher the risk the provider believes your house has from damage earthquake ,flood,fire etc

Another way of thinking round the pushing down on Gold is on the back of the "German gold repatriation"
going be much easier to to talk the germans out of wanting their Gold back for many years if the Price of the PM is heading south than making new highs
http://www.resourceinvestor.com/2013...d-repatriation


Is this just History Repeating ....

The whole situation mirrors the late 1960s, during a period that led up to the "Nixon Shock." Back then, the world was on the Bretton Woods System — an attempt on the part of Western central bankers to pin the dollar to gold at a fixed rate, while still allowing the metal to trade privately as a commodity. This led to a gap between the market price of gold as a commodity and the official price available from the Treasury.

As the true value of gold separated further and further from its official rate, the world began to realize the system was unsustainable, and many suspected the U.S. was not serious about maintaining a strong dollar. West Germany moved first on these fears by redeeming its dollar reserves for gold, followed by France, Switzerland and others. This eventually culminated in Nixon "closing the gold window" in 1971 by ending any link between the dollar and gold. This "Nixon Shock" spurred chronic inflation throughout the '70s and a concurrent rally in gold.

Are we going to see the same happen between the real metal and paper traded Gold ,the true value of the metal breaking away from the paper traded price controlled by the majors (funded by the FED etc)

IMHO If this is true I don't think the major controlling traders will push it too low or let it go very high but keep it range bound to a level that works to fit their agenda

[skid]

Bargan hunters jump in to buy sub 1300 gold--back up she goes

[Bobcat.]

36 hours ago, support at 1325USD was broken and this kicked in some big boys' stops. The POG dropped rapidly from 1330 to 1292 in less than 2 hours! After dropping to a two-month low of 1979, it then recovered to 1321 over just 12 hours (to 11am GMT). These patterns are encouraging. 1979 is a higher low than the 1972 that the POG has bounced off twice over the past three months. If the present upward trend holds and continues through the next 24hrs, I'll be seeing this as bullish.

BC

[Logen Ninefingers]

I've read the 'debate' on worth of gold with some interest. It seems that one point of view is trying to mock gold like it's some some of joke, some big yellow valueless turd sitting there that fools like to buy for no real reason. It seems the same flawed logic could be applied to a house: "haha - look at that big pile of nailed together wood sitting there, all you can do is live in it. What else you gonna do with it? Valueless junk".

This seems to ignore something about the tangible nature of real things. You can't bankrupt gold, you can't bankrupt a house, but a business sure as hell can go belly up. You can have a mortgagee sale on a house, and someone else will buy the tangible thing - it has intrinsic value. What is a share? Just a derived unreal enity, the value of which can be uttelry vaporised and extinguished overnight.

Moreover, gold is not just a yellow turd. It is valued across a vast array of fields - from dentistry to electronics to food to jewellery. It is used as a protective shield on satellites ffs!
The status of gold reflects just exactly what human beings can do with it.

What are you going to do with your invisible, just exists on a computer screen *share* in any adverse scenario? When it's value is vaporised......did it even exist at all? When the company it supposedly represents posts an enormous loss or goes belly up, or the market crashes as panic sets in: what protects your little share.....what bulwarks it against adversity? Nothing. It is *nothing*.

What can your little paper note do when it is totally devalued? What's it's bulwark? What's it's defence. You could use it as toilet paper, or as notepaper - like they did in the Weimar Republic. You could burn it on the fire.

Laughing at gold is just about the silliest thing I've heard of. You might as well laugh at a Picasso painting....."oeerr, this is just a piece of canvas with paint on it".

[Daytr]

My view on gold being sold down was really no one was willing to take it higher, so once it didn't move the hedge-funds pounced & caught the market off guard. A rumour was put around the market that a large fund was liquidating its gold (ETF I think) position. Not sure if there was any truth to the rumour however it certainly helped the shorters & suspect it may have been malicious, but have no foundation for that. The view of the market was also the shutdown would be a few days & perhaps it will be but I suspect not, either way as long as it doesn't drag on more than a few weeks the shut down doesn't matter too much other than for the 750k government workers who aren't being paid. What really matters & this will be gold supportive as once the debt ceiling is lifted the ratings companies will review their sovereign rating of the US and this will have a positive impact on the POG imo.

[Skol]

The US Govt. has shutdown and has the world ended? No, everything's proceeding quite normally, it's a political standoff and goldbugs are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, these kinds of tribulations have affected many countries, NZ included.

You only need gold if you're insecure, the politicians in the USA are going to make absolutely sure they can't be held responsible for any adverse economic circumstances, in other words it's a storm in a teacup - as usual.

Tunnel-vision goldbugs portray the shutdown as the beginning of the end but actually, if you read today's Herald there's a very good article on govt. shutdowns.

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Quote:

'The S&P500 has risen 11% on average in the 12 months following a govt. shutdown, according to data compiled by Bloomberg on instances since 1976.'

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Most goldbugs are too young to remember the 1980 implosion, but I do, quite clearly, so we've got a new generation of gold 'investors' with limited economic memory. There's years of inflation already built into the current gold price, so more than likely it's going to grind its way slowly south as the stock market rises.

[JBmurc]

The US Govt. has shutdown and has the world ended? No, everything's proceeding quite normally, it's a political standoff and goldbugs are trying to make a mountain out of as molehill, these kinds of tribulations have affected many countries, NZ included.

You only need gold if you're insecure, the politicians in the USA are going to make absolutely sure they can't be held responsible for any adverse economic circumstances, in other words it's a storm in a teacup - as usual.

Yeah for sure the world's not going end just because 800k workers aren't getting paid or people needing IRS details to buy property can't,Many market regulators not working,NASA all shut up shop etc...but It's not a good look is it ?? for the world #1 superpower

Then add in the Fact this is looking like the stand-off will drag into the Debt Ceiling come 17th of the month and it starts to look like one BIG stuff-up ...rolling into another one

the GFC came about from a mix of issues complex financial products; undisclosed conflicts of interest; the failure of regulators, the credit rating agencies, and the market itself to rein in the excesses of Wall Street

Structurally "NOTHING" been fixed from the GFC>>>>Are we seen some of this issues once again raise their head....Currently the US GOVERNMENT IS CLOSED some are going on holiday