TIL - Trilogy [formerly ECO - Ecoya]

[trader_jackson]

CVT struggling in China, TIL next to surprise the market ?

TIL won't be a surprise to me...
Currently trading a fraction above my fair valuation (which I mentioned quite a while ago was $3, this is when the share price was still well in excess of $4 and "it was only a matter of time" when it would be above $5... probably also the time when the $20 figure was thrown around for CVT)
...Key word is currently

[dodgy]

winner I think you will find those candles are adding to profitability this year. Regarding the article a bit of a beat up when the scientist confirms she didn't read any of the three warnings on the packet.

Pathetic for ANY person in the "scientific" community not to read instructions.

[Cricketfan]

Pathetic for ANY person in the "scientific" community not to read instructions.

Perhaps, but irrelevant in this case. Let's say she read the instructions and was doing an experiment to see what would happen if someone treated the candle like any other candle and let it burn. The point is the candle is designed badly, and most people who read this article or saw the tweets will definitely avoid buying it in future. I know if I was in the market for a candle, I would not buy Ecoya.

[dodgy]

Perhaps, but irrelevant in this case. Let's say she read the instructions and was doing an experiment to see what would happen if someone treated the candle like any other candle and let it burn. The point is the candle is designed badly, and most people who read this article or saw the tweets will definitely avoid buying it in future. I know if I was in the market for a candle, I would not buy Ecoya.

I agree, but what about a balanced view. Are all candles in the market place the same , and have instructions as the target ? Or has this company been singled out for whatever reason ? Maybe a few too many vinos do you think?

[BlackPeter]

I agree, but what about a balanced view. Are all candles in the market place the same , and have instructions as the target ? Or has this company been singled out for whatever reason ? Maybe a few too many vinos do you think?

I have seen before companies attacking their customers for not following instructions. I can't however remember a successful company doing so. If the clear downtrend TIL is in is not hint enough - TIL's behaviour should be a big red flag for any remaining holder.

Re candles - we always buy the cheapest ones we can get ... and never ever had a problem with them cracking the base we put them in. Maybe a solution for other buyers as well? Save money and trouble ... avoid Ecoya - does not rhyme, but seems to make a lot of sense;

[boysy]

How people think lighting a candle and leaving it unattended is a good idea is beyond me. This is an industry wide issue if you look at ecoyas competitors in NZ and Australia they all have the same issues with the same warnings. is reading any one of the three warnings on the package too much to ask ?

[boysy]

BP I think the ecoya PR team are working OT at the moment good follow up from them this morning it appears the scientist is now refusing comment

http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/886725...andle-explodes

Ecoya publicist Kate Hemus said while they respected Dickinson's opinion as a scientist and welcomed any testing she did, the company had been making candles for many years.

The blowing out of a candle happened when there was no wax to burn and the wick and metal wick holder were left to burn, exposing the base to extreme heat.

Safety information was provided on the base of the carton, the base of the candle and on an insert at the top of the candle.

It was also important to trim the wick of the candle each time it was used, she said.

Ecoya candles used a specific glass called annealed soda-lime silicate, which was independently tested on a regular basis for thermal shock and integrity.

The soy wax used also burned cooler and cleaner.

"We send someone from our technical team to an international candle conference annually to ensure that we are leading the industry in candle production.

"Unfortunately this is not the first time we have seen an incident like this, however we can tell you that 100 per cent of the complaints made where instances like this have occurred is when instructions for safe candle burning have not been followed."

Ecoya had received an email from Dickinson and were waiting for her contact number so they could discuss the incident, Hemus said.

Dickinson did not respond to requests for comment.

[BlackPeter]

BP I think the ecoya PR team are working OT at the moment good follow up from them this morning it appears the scientist is now refusing comment

http://i.stuff.co.nz/business/886725...andle-explodes

Ecoya publicist Kate Hemus said while they respected Dickinson's opinion as a scientist and welcomed any testing she did, the company had been making candles for many years.

The blowing out of a candle happened when there was no wax to burn and the wick and metal wick holder were left to burn, exposing the base to extreme heat.

Safety information was provided on the base of the carton, the base of the candle and on an insert at the top of the candle.

It was also important to trim the wick of the candle each time it was used, she said.

Ecoya candles used a specific glass called annealed soda-lime silicate, which was independently tested on a regular basis for thermal shock and integrity.

The soy wax used also burned cooler and cleaner.

"We send someone from our technical team to an international candle conference annually to ensure that we are leading the industry in candle production.

"Unfortunately this is not the first time we have seen an incident like this, however we can tell you that 100 per cent of the complaints made where instances like this have occurred is when instructions for safe candle burning have not been followed."

Ecoya had received an email from Dickinson and were waiting for her contact number so they could discuss the incident, Hemus said.

Dickinson did not respond to requests for comment.

Look boysy - you clearly feel strong for Ecoya. Let me tell you, at the end it does not matter who is (legally) right ... Ecoya will lose customers and business due to this incident.

I don't know how much their candles cost, but I am sure it is too much. Designing the base in a way that they can't burn below the recommended wax level would be very easy indeed (with cost ranging from Zero to some tenth of a cent). Just slightly modify the wick-holder and the last 10mm of wax (or whatever the critical level is) can't be burned due to the wick ending a bit higher.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist, brain surgeon or materials engineer to see this solution - Ecoya is clearly ways out of their depth and it sounds they are designing unsafe candles. And they charge an arm and a leg for the opportunity to buy them.

[Balance]

CVT struggling in China, TIL next to surprise the market ?

Couple of articles from 2016 when TIL's sp was heading towards $5.00 shows how important the China market is to sales and earnings as far as the marrket is concerned :

http://www.afr.com/markets/nzs-trilo...0160621-gpob63

https://www.piefunds.co.nz/news/tril...ural-skincare/

Comparison to Blackmores & BWX : "It's pretty easy to get a valuation of $6.00 without working that hard."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=11592544

I think after the Comvita fiasco and Bellamy's blow-out, market will be watching the China sales very very carefully.

[sb9]

I think after the Comvita fiasco and Bellamy's blow-out, market will be watching the China sales very very carefully.

Agree with your comments Balance, however on point of Bellamy's which were purely self inflicted wherein they try to do online sales themselves by undercutting daigou channel which is where A2 made big strategic shift.

Sorry to digress, but my point is you've to know the target market well (in this case China) and have logistics or strategies in place to succeed or else you're doomed as a company.