View Poll Results: Should there be a Capital Gains Tax on Property
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No
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Yes
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Goff is just an idiot
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Epic fail for Labour
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28-02-2019, 10:23 AM
#401
Just came across a Comment from Frank Newman on the Tax Working Group report (sorry - don't have it online, but I am sure the copied info is all public).
Interesting to note: 3 of the 11 members of the working group wrote a minority reprot, disagreeing with the findings of the others. Quite brave btw - don't expect them to stay on the Labour working goprup gravy train. They are former Bell Gully tax partner Joanne Hodge, Business NZ chief executive Kirk Hope, and former Inland Revenue deputy commissioner Robin Oliver.
Their main points: the huge compliance cost and significant disruptions to business could not be justified by quite minor increase in tax take.
In their report they state "the costs of extending the tax base clearly exceed the benefits...As additional asset
classes are included in the capital gains tax system, the issues become more complex and there is an
increasing need for exemptions and exceptions which are intended to reduce lock-in impacts and compliance
costs, but can cause the reverse. Including business assets (such as goodwill and other intangible assets) and
shares leads to complexity, high compliance costs and inconsistent rules characteristic of many overseas
capital gains tax systems. The need to value business assets such as goodwill on introduction date is one
illustration. Valuing such property is likely to impose high compliance costs on businesses."
Speaking on Radio New Zealand, Robin Oliver stated the compliance costs to value business assets "will
easily cost over a billion dollars".
Wow. Is there really nothing better we could do with this money than implementing a poorly designed envy tax and crush our economy?
The glaring flaw in the Tax Working Group’s proposal is that Labour promised a CGT would shift capital away from
unproductive assets like housing into productive investment like businesses. The TWG proposal will do exactly the
opposite.
Great stuff Cindy. Just remind me, which problem did you wanted to solve?
Last edited by BlackPeter; 28-02-2019 at 12:25 PM.
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"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)
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28-02-2019, 10:39 AM
#402
Originally Posted by fungus pudding
IRD does not classify property investment as a business.
Just taking it to the extreme silliness about exemptions FP, you could argue why not, I get income from it, I have expenses to pay to make that income, how is it different to my friend the self employed electrician whom I may use to fix any electrical problems in said rental home.
Any how if believe what has been published, in doing so you would be expected to pay CGT related to the portion that you use your home for the/a business - similar to what SBQ was saying about Canada.
Too complex means too many loop holes
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28-02-2019, 02:29 PM
#403
Originally Posted by iceman
Yes that's how it is SBQ. Labour is now backtracking full speed and promising "family home", "farmers", "small businesses", "Maori" and who knows what else, exemptions. This thing simply will not fly here in NZ.
I do think agood, low, flat CGT has a part to play in a sensible tax system, but it would have to be like NZ's (world beating) GST, flat rate without exemptions. I have several properties in a European country that has a CGT, yet I've never paid any (except on bank balances and FX gains) because of all the exemptions on "homes" and the totally reasonable "repatriation" clauses.
Here Labour wants to exempt the "family home". Just momentarily think how much that term and the definitions of it can be stretched. My idea would be to sell my shares and buy a couple of acres sections to build my home on with "extensions" (AKA different abodes) for the rest of my family and charge them rent.
Remember, you only have 4500m2 before the rest is subject to CGT. And don't try to tell me the IRD wouldn't argue your section in the middle of the city isn't a lifestyle block! After all, there's dollars to be milked from you!
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28-02-2019, 02:30 PM
#404
Originally Posted by fungus pudding
IRD does not classify property investment as a business.
That depends... if you own 20, buy and sell on a semi regulation basis and/or you derive most of your income from that, they might take a shine to you.
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28-02-2019, 02:33 PM
#405
Buying Kiwirail.
The Tax Working Group.
A future large earthquake while still the chairman of the Earthquake Commission.
Michael Cullen will get at least one of the three right won't he?
Boop boop de do
Marilyn
Diamonds are a girls best friend.
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01-03-2019, 11:55 AM
#406
Originally Posted by iceman
We are the only country in the OECD that does not have a formal CGT although we have the Brightline tax which of course is CGT in disguise. Most of other OECD have a CGT with many exemptions and lower rates than normal income tax. But it has not stopped them from having exactly the same issues as NZ with run away house prices and high rents. The idea that CGT will be a guarantee to lower house prices and lower rent is simply not supported by any evidence
Maximum Tax Rates
NZ 33% +15% gst
Australia 45% +10% gst
USA 50% (37% Fed 13% State)
UK 47% + 20% vat
All of these countries except NZ have CGT plus death and property taxes of some sort.
Their share markets are thriving yet NZ with low taxes is excited because a locally owned port may list some of its shares. The wealthy immigrants buying sheep stations which are then run at a loss for taxation purposes are sure doing a lot for NZ.
Seems to me the top 20% who supposedly own 80% of the assets have little to complain about in NZ.
westerly
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01-03-2019, 12:30 PM
#407
Originally Posted by westerly
Seems to me the top 20% who supposedly own 80% of the assets have little to complain about in NZ.
westerly
If we want to complain it is our right to do so.
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01-03-2019, 02:30 PM
#408
Originally Posted by westerly
Maximum Tax Rates
NZ 33% +15% gst
Australia 45% +10% gst
USA 50% (37% Fed 13% State)
UK 47% + 20% vat
All of these countries except NZ have CGT plus death and property taxes of some sort.
Their share markets are thriving yet NZ with low taxes is excited because a locally owned port may list some of its shares. The wealthy immigrants buying sheep stations which are then run at a loss for taxation purposes are sure doing a lot for NZ.
Seems to me the top 20% who supposedly own 80% of the assets have little to complain about in NZ.
westerly
NZ does NOT have low taxes. Singapore would be a good example of low taxes.
You would have to put all those tax rates in respect of the tax brackets and more importantly, a base currency. Then compared that to the buying power of what $1 buys in each country. I'm quite certain NZ cost of living and choices can not compared to most other places with much larger population and size.
If you think investment from local NZ funds is dismal, just wait until CGT gets put in place. Show me the data where the top 20% holds their wealth? I can assure you they're not picking places like NZ. For starters, equity investment in NZ is "dividend" focused which means tax with-holding by the overseas investors. Compare that with 0% CGT if they bought an asset (ie like houses) which would be sold tax free in 5+ years?
We've already had a wave of capital leave NZ last year during the 'Foreign Trust' crack down (Panama Papers, etc.) There was like a 75% non-compliance rate (trustee not providing tax # status to those foreign trusts ; so in lieu, they close up the trust and send the funds abroad).
Jacinda's CGT will be Stage 2 of the exodus of NZ capital.
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01-03-2019, 02:33 PM
#409
Good riddance to dodgy rip off tax avoiding users. A clean out of the trough is great.
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01-03-2019, 02:38 PM
#410
Originally Posted by westerly
Maximum Tax Rates
NZ 33% +15% gst
Australia 45% +10% gst
USA 50% (37% Fed 13% State)
UK 47% + 20% vat
All of these countries except NZ have CGT plus death and property taxes of some sort.
Their share markets are thriving yet NZ with low taxes is excited because a locally owned port may list some of its shares. The wealthy immigrants buying sheep stations which are then run at a loss for taxation purposes are sure doing a lot for NZ.
Seems to me the top 20% who supposedly own 80% of the assets have little to complain about in NZ.
westerly
Since you have all those figures then how about stating when at what level of income the maximum rate is hit. Also remember NZ has ACC levy and Australia has a medicare levy.
To say that all the foreign owned farms are run at a loss is unsubstantiated. It is like saying the wealthy all avoid tax by using trusts and leaving money in a company to avoid paying tax. Typical statements from a large number of misinformed New Zealanders.
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