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View Poll Results: Should there be a Capital Gains Tax on Property

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  • No

    213 100.00%
  • Yes

    74 56.49%
  • Goff is just an idiot

    2,147,483,658 100.00%
  • Epic fail for Labour

    1,935 100.00%
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  1. #41
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    Fungus Pudding there are and always have been exemptions Read the GST ACT bank fees for one are GST exempt. The reason for very few exemptions has gone with the adoption of computers. That was one of the reasons the increase to 15% was actually possible try working out the 15%GST without A computer for a gst return it is not simple like it is for 10% & 12.5%. It could even be included in the products barcode as to the products GST stutus
    Possum The Cat

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by POSSUM THE CAT View Post
    Fungus Pudding there are and always have been exemptions Read the GST ACT bank fees for one are GST exempt. The reason for very few exemptions has gone with the adoption of computers. That was one of the reasons the increase to 15% was actually possible try working out the 15%GST without A computer for a gst return it is not simple like it is for 10% & 12.5%. It could even be included in the products barcode as to the products GST stutus
    Yes. Financial transactions, res. rents have always been exempt, which was easy ad necessary. physical - a pure service. There are special reasons why finance never attracts consumption tax in any system and it's all about interest rates. I am not aware of any exempt countries. Consider the likes of fruit and vegetables in a mixed business. Do they go out the door as they same in, or in a salad roll? Over the checkout counter, or through the delicatessen as a salad. As it is it is very hard to fiddle. Incidentally, removing GST from perishables as Labour are on about will not reduce the retail price, just as it could not be added when introduced. Nothing responds as rapidly to supply and demand. It is always priced to sell before it has to be thrown out; that's the only criterion. Supermarkets adjust prices daily or even through the day, and the mark-up range can be massive. They won't bother reducing below what they can safely sell out at. And you certainly do not need a computer to calculate GST whatever the percentage. Anyone that can't do it in their heads can do it on a two dollar calcukator. GST content 1s 3/23rds or 13.04%. No more difficult than it was at 12.5% and content was 1/9 or 11.11 % Every review ever done on GST has commended the fact there are no exemptions. That includes various studies done by the Labour party hypocrites.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Then it is not a CGT. That is just income tax. Exactly as it stands now for those dealing in pproperty - or anything else.
    yes. Income tax but on capital gains. Provided you factor in inflation somehow, I dont see why income gains should be taxable but capital gains shouldn't be. Anything that increases wealth.
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  4. #44
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    I think some form of capital gains tax would be fair - particularly if it also resulted in lower income taxes* (I think a flat tax across any form of income and because I'm an egalitarian prick would even consider taxing the family home too - albeit political ramifications would almost certainly preclude this). John Key has suggested CG taxes are complex which is partly true but so is the tax system in its entirety so suspect he is pandering here. I don't like the wealth tax approach and think cashflow is too important a consideration in the investment value mix so taxes should be incurred at sale time, nothwithstanding the consequences on how this impacts asset sale decisions.

    The question of inflation is complex as many people suggest capital gains should be cupped by the rate of inflation (or even the risk free rate of return). But by the same note, income taxes are often allowed to creep up the progressive scale so are not always effectively indexed against inflation. What happens in one should happen in the other.

    * Suspect investors have something to gain from lower income taxes anyway as a share of income increases will find their way into company coffers.

  5. #45
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    From what I've read it sounds like fiddling with numbers that ultimately will not end up making much difference at all to most of us. Much like the great tax cuts. Give with one hand and take with the other.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    yes. Income tax but on capital gains. Provided you factor in inflation somehow, I dont see why income gains should be taxable but capital gains shouldn't be. Anything that increases wealth.
    But capital gained is treated as income and taxed already for many property investors. The hoi polloi seem to think that investors can just sell properties and pocket the capital profit. Will be interesting to see if Goff/Cunliffe are suggesting that they should now declare the profit as income and pay a CGT as well. Or are they looking more at areas that are almost always exempt? Mainly these are farms and holiday homes, or perhaps a second home such as an inner city apartment.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscuit View Post
    One problem with that is that the increase in value of an asset doesn't necessarily provide cashflow to pay tax. Also, many assets go up in value over time above the rate of inflation because some poor bugger has invested their time and energy into building them up - something you are unlikely to get a tax credit for. Personally, I would be very reluctant to encourage politicians to see assets as a source of Government revenue. Also - we might all be better off if we taxed things that don't "increase wealth"
    None of this matters of course. They won't get a sniff at the treasury benches for a few years. By then they will probably give up on this one, and just get back to ****ing on about how unfair it is that some work hard, chuck everything on the line and if lucky, make a few bob. That will lead to more envy levels on income tax - their usual ploy to pacify their sad socialist followers.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    But capital gained is treated as income and taxed already for many property investors. The hoi polloi seem to think that investors can just sell properties and pocket the capital profit.
    Agree, however the IRD don't seem to have the resources to track everyone doing that.
    I know of a person who bought and sold a "family" home 4 times within about 2 years and each time made at least $100K - supposed to be that they changed their mind on where they wanted to live or decided they did not like the house.
    Equally would/should apply to share investors traders as well, IRD do not seem to monitor this area either, but then how far do you go - cars, art, stamp/coin collections etc etc

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscuit View Post
    Putting a CGT on the increase in value of all assets would probably reduce some tax evasion. But, they will not put CGT on all assets. The most effective way to reduce tax evasion would be if we all handed over all our salaries and assets to the IRD and lived off a small benefit.

    Wrong. Adding any new tax increases incentive for evasion and always opens new avenues. I was witness to (not party to - of course) numerous transactions in the days of speculation tax, when a local property investor always had sackfuls of cash. He would contract to buy a property at a certain price, then top it up with an under the counter payment; often as much as 90% of the increased price. There were more conventional and probably less illegal ways around it, but they would spring up again.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    But capital gained is treated as income and taxed already for many property investors.
    but not all. And most pretend they long term holders rather than traders. elimitate the 'intention' test and that wrought goes away.

    Quote Originally Posted by biscuit View Post
    Also, many assets go up in value over time above the rate of inflation because some poor bugger has invested their time and energy into building them up - something you are unlikely to get a tax credit for.
    You are suggested income from labour which was not paid as wages or salary, so no PAYE/tax. increase in wealth from labour should be subject to tax. Currently you can hid as a 'captial gain' and get away with it (hence why builder/ developers/ traders are tainted in respect to land transactions).
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