sharetrader

View Poll Results: Should there be a Capital Gains Tax on Property

Voters
103. You may not vote on this poll
  • No

    202 100.00%
  • Yes

    60 58.25%
  • Goff is just an idiot

    2,147,483,655 100.00%
  • Epic fail for Labour

    1,930 100.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 21 of 39 FirstFirst ... 1117181920212223242531 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 315 of 571
  1. #301
    percy
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    christchurch
    Posts
    12,741

    Default

    I guess the NZ sharemarket will have a 25% spike up on V day, on record low volume.?
    Then the paper war will start in ernest.
    At this stage I am wondering what's the point of saving to invest.
    Last edited by percy; 21-02-2019 at 03:52 PM.

  2. #302
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Wellington, , New Zealand.
    Posts
    885

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    I guess the NZ sharemarket will have a 25% spike up on V day, on record low volume.?
    Then the paper war will start in ernest.
    At this stage I am wondering what's the point of saving to invest.
    We'll need a V day first. I notice that Mr Oliver, a member of the TWG, is one of the dissenters. Since he knows a wee bit about what it takes for IRD to set up and collect tax he might actually be listened to when the government puts its legislation together.

  3. #303
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    443

    Default

    Well.. looks like house prices will continue to rise since this will be the only tax free place to park capital, such a stupid recommendation. Why save to invest in shares, you’d do better leveraging up and buying a bigger “family home”.

  4. #304
    Veteran novice
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    , , .
    Posts
    6,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by percy View Post
    I guess the NZ sharemarket will have a 25% spike up on V day, on record low volume.?
    Then the paper war will start in ernest.
    At this stage I am wondering what's the point of saving to invest.
    Perhaps an unintended consequence will be to reinforce the strategy of selling losers and keeping winners. Of course, it rather complicates a decision to sell a winner when the shareprice starts to trend downwards.


  5. #305
    Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Auckland, , New Zealand.
    Posts
    2,559

    Default

    Well it will take the argument out of whether you are an investor or a trader.

  6. #306
    Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    CNI area NZ
    Posts
    6,140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Exactly what I said.You will only need to know valuation on V day. Prior to that date gain or loss will be irrelevant.
    FP, thought you'd like the idea of a rollover being mooted (perhaps have to reinvest in a similar area). Can't see how they'll ever collect any CGT if that is the case. Maybe you'd be allowed to buy a vintage car or other asset that is likely to still increase in value. Or even put the capital gain into a savings account? Labour must be worried about having National undo it all. Sounds to me like the tax accountants will be happy to provide answers here.

  7. #307
    Trying to get outta here
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    Well it will take the argument out of whether you are an investor or a trader.
    Only if the CGT is set at your marginal tax rate which is the most idiotic idea and is not the case in any other country with a CGT. If it's set around 15% as it should be then most traders will still pay more tax than investors.

  8. #308
    Ignorant. Just ignorant.
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Irresident
    Posts
    773

    Default

    Personally, I have concerns about IRD's capacity to administer a CGT.

    And if, as p17 of the executive summary suggests, it will be necessary to undertake a series of test cases, then adequate clarity might well lie some distance in the future.

  9. #309
    Guru
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Auckland, , New Zealand.
    Posts
    2,559

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by couta1 View Post
    Only if the CGT is set at your marginal tax rate which is the most idiotic idea and is not the case in any other country with a CGT. If it's set around 15% as it should be then most traders will still pay more tax than investors.
    They have already stated that it is to be your marginal tax rate.

  10. #310
    Trying to get outta here
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    6,193

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 777 View Post
    They have already stated that it is to be your marginal tax rate.
    There is no way they will get this thing through at your marginal tax rate, I'd put money on it.

  11. #311
    Guru
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sth Island. New Zealand.
    Posts
    4,443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    FP, thought you'd like the idea of a rollover being mooted (perhaps have to reinvest in a similar area). Can't see how they'll ever collect any CGT if that is the case. Maybe you'd be allowed to buy a vintage car or other asset that is likely to still increase in value. Or even put the capital gain into a savings account? Labour must be worried about having National undo it all. Sounds to me like the tax accountants will be happy to provide answers here.
    As far as I know the roll over tax so far is only suggested for business sales.(I think the common term where it exists is 'a repatriation clause') It should apply to all assert classes where CGT is proposed in my opinion, so CGT would only apply on exiting that class of investment. There are good reasons for that, but that's covering old ground. I don't think National would ever undo CGT if it gets established as evidenced by their about turn on their hinted intention of undoing Labour's GST. No doubt you remember Bolger waffling about a transfer tax. Fortunately that's long forgotten, and I for one hope our GST remains in its current simple form. Govt's don't abandon tax schemes - they just try and find better ways to spend it. Forget vintage cars, art and similar nonsense - rest assured it will only apply to income earning assets with the one exemption being a holiday or second home)

  12. #312
    Membaa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    [snip] Forget vintage cars, art and similar nonsense - rest assured it will only apply to income earning assets with the one exemption being a holiday or second home)
    Which includes capital gains on shares (assets). I wonder how people will feel about losing their marginal tax rate on their capital gains on shares when they sell them, or when their estate sells them. I think it sucks.
    BAA

  13. #313
    Guru
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sth Island. New Zealand.
    Posts
    4,443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Baa_Baa View Post
    Which includes capital gains on shares (assets). I wonder how people will feel about losing their marginal tax rate on their capital gains on shares when they sell them, or when their estate sells them. I think it sucks.
    Plenty of people pay income tax on shares they sell now, and of course that's at marginal tax rates. If you are deemed to be a trader you will pay tax on profits, whether it's cars, houses, shares, second hand furniture, holes to put in swiss-cheese, or widgets you're selling.
    Last edited by fungus pudding; 21-02-2019 at 10:01 PM.

  14. #314
    Membaa
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Paradise
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Plenty of people pay income tax on shares they sell now, and of course that's at marginal tax rates. If you are deemed to be a trader you will pay tax on profits, whether it's cars, houses, shares, second hand furniture, holes to put in swiss-cheese, or widgets you're selling.
    Fair comment, re dividends tax, but you cleverly avoided the investor who didn't intend to sell (when they bought) but for some some reason they eventually were sold. Boom .. CGT rips a massive 'marginal tax rate' hole in your/their capital gains.

    Interested in what investors think about this. If you take for example a high capital growth share like XRO or ATM, and say you put $50k in the early days and make a few millions out of it, how do you feel about a tax bill of a few $ hundred thousands or a million or so when you or your estate sell it?
    BAA

  15. #315
    Advanced Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,762

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SBQ View Post
    You're missing the MAJOR distinction between taxing of necessities vs taxing of large size wealth. After all, pretty much EVERY OECD nation treats CGT differently to income tax rates. Why? Show me a country that applies CGT exemption limits each year? How would that be particularly useful to the person that owns no assets? Therefore, I don't see your argument that the principal resident should not be exempt as it would be the single source of asset a person can hold, and more importantly, not having to worry about selling for a capital LOSS (consider those that move from place to place every 5 or 10 years?) and then pay another round of CGT when the market rebounds.

    I also do not buy into the argument about those choosing NOT to buy a house and instead, invest their savings elsewhere (ie managed funds). The fact is simple, those that can't afford to buy a house simply do NOT have the $ to save ; what % of those on minimum wage actually contribute to Kiwi Saver? Very few because that 3% they lose off their total annual income would be better spent in putting food on the table. The approach of CGT by other wealthy nations is aimed none other than the wealthy ; the NZ top 5% of the population that has parked their $ in real estate, banking it without having to worry about paying tax on the gain.
    There are people who have decided to invest in and build up businesses rather than buying their own homes. Why not give them a tax break too as good as home-owners get?

    If you own a mortgage-free $3m home you are indeed wealthy. Every country that exempts the “family home” applies a CGT exemption. Exempting what can be a multi-million dollar asset, is an exemption for the wealthy.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •