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View Poll Results: Should there be a Capital Gains Tax on Property

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  • No

    202 100.00%
  • Yes

    60 58.25%
  • Goff is just an idiot

    2,147,483,655 100.00%
  • Epic fail for Labour

    1,930 100.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #496
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Some investors in shares have their shares in a custodial service sometimes with fees paid either at a flat rate or as a % of the value for the custody and sometimes an extra % paid for additional “advice”. So they also pay GST.
    No matter what system there will always be exceptions. And with those exceptions come opportunities to avoid - which is every tax payers responsibility.

  2. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    No matter what system there will always be exceptions. And with those exceptions come opportunities to avoid - which is every tax payers responsibility.
    Isn’t that a reason behind the tax review in the first place.

    Leveraged investment in residential real estate had provided the opportunity to minimise income tax (by minimising the income from rent) whilst maximising the leveraged return from untaxed capital gain. With that opportunity also being a big factor in there being less household capital available for NZ shares resulting in the small share market and many listings crossing the Tasman.

  3. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Isn’t that a reason behind the tax review in the first place.

    Leveraged investment in residential real estate had provided the opportunity to minimise income tax (by minimising the income from rent) whilst maximising the leveraged return from untaxed capital gain.
    In what way does that differ from a leveraged investment in shares?

  4. #499
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Isn’t that a reason behind the tax review in the first place.

    .
    No. Labour is hell bent on introducing a CGT under the misguided principle of "fairness" (definition = wealth re-distribution

  5. #500
    FEAR n GREED JBmurc's Avatar
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    Default >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Overall the CGT in its current form is going hurt the average kiwi battler(esp the new investors looking to make their first investments in property) more so than the well-off they think will take the brunt of the extra TAX...

    For me personally, this CGT plan won't affect us much at all.. I don't have a Kiwi saver ... I trade shares within a company structure so pay tax anyway as does anyone they trades shares or crytpo / bullion /art etc..

    and have speculated with property in the past so tainted anyway now and bright line test is 5yrs so speculators are caught these days anyway...

    And you add in the fact Capital values of most of NZ property is at record highs in this long bull cycle more likely those selling over the next decade may well take a loss and need tax rebates ,,


    in 2016 the US-based Tax Foundation ranked New Zealand’s overall tax system as second in the developed world for its competitiveness - and top for its individual (personal) taxes.

    then along comes Cindy >>>
    People don't have ideas, ideas have people

  6. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    In what way does that differ from a leveraged investment in shares?
    Leveraging the investment using the investment itself as collateral? It may happen for some share investors today but I imagine nowhere to the same extent as happens with real estate.

  7. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    No. Labour is hell bent on introducing a CGT under the misguided principle of "fairness" (definition = wealth re-distribution
    I did not say it was the sole reason. The road to hell may well be paved with good intentions.

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjauck View Post
    Leveraging the investment using the investment itself as collateral? It may happen for some share investors today but I imagine nowhere to the same extent as happens with real estate.
    That's because of the N.Z. Banks conservative approach to lending. The point I was trying to make is that tax law does not distinguish, but treats shares and property equally. i.e. there is no special treatment for real estate as a class. Just borrow from a rich uncle.

  9. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    That's because of the N.Z. Banks conservative approach to lending. The point I was trying to make is that tax law does not distinguish, but treats shares and property equally. i.e. there is no special treatment for real estate as a class. Just borrow from a rich uncle.
    The definition of what is a taxable dividend would also need to be compared with what constitutes current taxable returns from property.

    However in relation to CGT I understand. Perhaps the crux of “fairness” lies in real world practice and the comparison of taxes raised per $1 net return on the investment.

  10. #505
    An Awesome Cool Cat winner69's Avatar
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    I’ve just signed the Labour Party petition on the CGT

    labour.org.nz
    “Imagination is more important than knowledge.”

  11. #506
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    I’ve just signed the Labour Party petition on the CGT

    labour.org.nz
    Good onya. I have sent emails to Duncan Webb and Ruth dyson fully supporting CGT on the family home.

  12. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Good onya. I have sent emails to Duncan Webb and Ruth dyson fully supporting CGT on the family home.
    I have done likewise to Grant Robertson. Specifically pointing out if CGT does proceed and also covers the family home, it would raise meaningful revenue, thus allowing a meaningful drop in income tax - and if it's considered fair to tax gains from property, then treat all property equally rather than just play with it.

  13. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    I have done likewise to Grant Robertson. Specifically pointing out if CGT does proceed and also covers the family home, it would raise meaningful revenue, thus allowing a meaningful drop in income tax - and if it's considered fair to tax gains from property, then treat all property equally rather than just play with it.
    Do you think they are crazy enough to give solid weighting to disingenuous advice from property investors FP? The standard household home was never in the CGT equation in any case. And I don't think that would lead to any investor worth their salt, over-investing in the family home, as it would be a waste of good capital. All property is being treated fairly, unless you'd consider not being able to add interest paid and other ownership costs into your annual tax return for your property portfolio.

    Other dastardly options for landlords:

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...ichardson.html

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/polit...or-labour.html
    Last edited by elZorro; 11-03-2019 at 06:15 PM.

  14. #509
    Legend minimoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    Renters just have to look forward to increases. Labour has changed how property management fees are charged - so loading up rent. They are insisting on minimum housing standards so cost will be loaded onto rent. Nothing wrong with landlords now wanting to manage their capital risks by cashing up any potential gain by loading up rents.

  15. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Renters just have to look forward to increases. Labour has changed how property management fees are charged - so loading up rent. They are insisting on minimum housing standards so cost will be loaded onto rent. Nothing wrong with landlords now wanting to manage their capital risks by cashing up any potential gain by loading up rents.
    I can see you have the mantra spot-on, MM. It's only fair that the tenants will pay for every last cent of your investment, and more.

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