Capital Gains Tax

[westerly]

A GST increase captures the black and grey economies so produces more revenue than projections based on the legit books.

There is also the option to reduce expenditure. Management mantra - there is 30% waste in every process. I have certainly worked in and alongside jobs just like that. And that's not counting the useless or failed projects and initiatives.

National tried reducing expenditure resulting in Labour inheriting many problems that should never have occurred.
GST increases may capture the black economy but has more effect on the lower paid.
A return to death duties would be one way to increase revenue and despite FP’ s abhorrence would be a good substitute for CGT.
The Nordic system of open tax paid availability would be interesting if introduced. Reputedly many wealthy people in NZ pay no tax at all which may be legitimate, but would certainly raise a few eyebrows if there names were freely available.

westerly

[fungus pudding]

National tried reducing expenditure resulting in Labour inheriting many problems that should never have occurred.
GST increases may capture the black economy but has more effect on the lower paid.
A return to death duties would be one way to increase revenue and despite FP’ s abhorrence would be a good substitute for CGT.
The Nordic system of open tax paid availability would be interesting if introduced. Reputedly many wealthy people in NZ pay no tax at all which may be legitimate, but would certainly raise a few eyebrows if there names were freely available.

westerly

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us on their* names. Or even better - their* methods. You can't of course-don't believe everything you hear; especially from your envious mates who moan and grizzle rather than going and earning a buck.

* N.B. correct spelling.

[westerly]

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us on their* names. Or even better - their* methods. You can't of course-don't believe everything you hear; especially from your envious mates who moan and grizzle rather than going and earning a buck.

* N.B. correct spelling.

Tax records are private but to enlighten you on their methods this link makes interesting reading,
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ir-go-identity especially the link to IRD research
wage earners can't avoid tax ,PAYE takes care of that.

westerly

[fungus pudding]

Tax records are private but to enlighten you on their methods this link makes interesting reading,
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ir-go-identity especially the link to IRD research
wage earners can't avoid tax ,PAYE takes care of that.

westerly

That does not explain how to use a trust to avoid tax.

[iceman]

National tried reducing expenditure resulting in Labour inheriting many problems that should never have occurred.
GST increases may capture the black economy but has more effect on the lower paid.
A return to death duties would be one way to increase revenue and despite FP’ s abhorrence would be a good substitute for CGT.
The Nordic system of open tax paid availability would be interesting if introduced. Reputedly many wealthy people in NZ pay no tax at all which may be legitimate, but would certainly raise a few eyebrows if there names were freely available.

westerly

The comparison between NZ and Nordic countries is an interesting one. I put it to you that the big difference is the large proportion of people in NZ that either do not want to work or are unemployable. Until we fix that, any dream of a Nordic type social system is just that, a dream. A CGT or a wealth tax will not fix it. We need to fix attitudes first.

[Balance]

The comparison between NZ and Nordic countries is an interesting one. I put it to you that the big difference is the large proportion of people in NZ that either do not want to work or are unemployable. Until we fix that, any dream of a Nordic type social system is just that, a dream. A CGT or a wealth tax will not fix it. We need to fix attitudes first.

NZ's productive sector is screaming out for workers.

Despite tens of thousands on social welfare (thanks to Cindy's breeding beneficiaries' policies), the productive sector, especially the horticultural sector, faces disaster because of lack of workers.

[Bjauck]

NZ's productive sector is screaming out for workers.

Despite tens of thousands on social welfare (thanks to Cindy's breeding beneficiaries' policies), the productive sector, especially the horticultural sector, faces disaster because of lack of workers.

Is this related to CGT?
Instead of relying on low pay and poor conditions that only workers from poor countries are prepared to put up with, Maybe pay more and improve conditions to attract more NZers?

[Bjauck]

The comparison between NZ and Nordic countries is an interesting one. I put it to you that the big difference is the large proportion of people in NZ that either do not want to work or are unemployable. Until we fix that, any dream of a Nordic type social system is just that, a dream. A CGT or a wealth tax will not fix it. We need to fix attitudes first.

What if part of the solution "to fix attitudes" is to broaden the tax base to include those taxes (and maybe others you also dislike?) to encourage investment into taxable income producing and employment stimulating areas. You have already excluded that part of any solution?

Have you got links to the studies that conclude that NZ has higher proportion of people who do not wish to work or are "unemployable" compared with the various Nordic countries?

However I agree. NZ does need to look at the appropriate and relevant education and vocational training, underlying socio-economic causes, underlying taxation issues and other systemic issues behind any non-engagement in NZ society. It would be great to have actual policies that address these issues head-on instead of their coming to grief against the powerful block of vested interests?

[iceman]

What if part of the solution "to fix attitudes" is to broaden the tax base to include those taxes (and maybe others you also dislike?) to encourage investment into taxable income producing and employment stimulating areas. You have already excluded that part of any solution?

Have you got links to the studies that conclude that NZ has higher proportion of people who do not wish to work or are "unemployable" compared with the various Nordic countries?

However I agree. NZ does need to look at the appropriate and relevant education and vocational training, underlying socio-economic causes, underlying taxation issues and other systemic issues behind any non-engagement in NZ society. It would be great to have actual policies that address these issues head-on instead of their coming to grief against the powerful block of vested interests?

Bjauck you are making huge assumptions about my position on taxes. I am all for fair taxes to maintain a good and FAIR social system.

But in response to your question, no I do not have any links to "studies" on differences between Nordic countries and NZ. I have interests in both a Nordic country and in NZ and trust myself to see the difference, I don't need studies to tell me about it. And the typical Leftie response is that we need to increase wages to get people to work. While that is partly true because our benefits are very high and not much incentive to work, it is not true that the jobs available are all low paying. In my industry (fishing), we can no longer crew vessels with reliable good Kiwi workers. An 18 yo unqualified but hard worker, could get a job in our industry tomorrow if they'd want to go away for 6 weeks at a time. 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off and earn $35-50k a year for 6 months work. But no, going away for a weekend is beyond what they're prepared to do.
Agriculture and horticulture is in the same situation.
I've just come from a couple of weeks trip around the bottom of the South Island. I made a point of talking to pub, hotel and tourism business owners along the way. They are ALL complaining about the lack of reliable workers available and some were working much longer hours than they wanted themselves, because they can not get workers.

So I'm sorry to hear you need some studies to prove this to you. Open your eyes and have a look for yourself. The situation in NZ today is outrageous. Stop making excuses for it.

[Baa_Baa]

So going back to Artemis's discussion point - what "your 'fair share' of what someone else has worked for" depends on what you feel is a fair income, taking into account what you think are fair laws, fair share of local and national infrastructure, expenses, security, and fair health, social and environmental responsibilities.

A democratic society probably has a legal framework that approximately hits the "mid-point" of the spread of opinions on what is fair.

You think it’s unfair if one earns an high salary and fair if they don’t, so the ones who do earn high wages should support the ones who don’t? And you address this imbalance through tax.

Is that a summary of what you think?