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View Poll Results: Should there be a Capital Gains Tax on Property

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  • No

    202 100.00%
  • Yes

    60 58.25%
  • Goff is just an idiot

    2,147,483,655 100.00%
  • Epic fail for Labour

    1,930 100.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscuit View Post
    I think that is where we differ. I certainly do see why I shouldn't. Tax is being paid on the rent. If the properties suddenly go up in value, well good for me, and if they suddenly go down in value that's my hard luck. What has that got to do with the Government? People get too obsessed about paying tax on all "income" as though that was some kind of natural physical law. Then they get all tied up defining what is income and what isn't income. Address the specific distortions in the system but don't introduce a a new class of tax that is going to whack people already paying more than their fair share and introduce a whole load of new distortions.
    I agree - don't introduce a new tax. That is why I say call it all income and tax it on that basis. There has to be a means of getting around the silly intention rule. At present a hairdresser who owns a block of flats, say, then sells after a few years, pays no tax. A builder doing the same thing does. The only way to avoid the distorions as you call them, is to class all gains as income. Think of the positive side - buying would become a lot less competitive meaning we might return to the days where investment flats, commercial etc, will have to be higher yielding to be attractivre to a buyer. Such things have become so competitive that they just make no sense. Taxing profits would deflate the market - although only a little. Most people still earn money in the full knowledge that there efforts will be taxed. The sad part is - most of them do it through being employed. Yuk!

  2. #92
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    I think it should only ever be on realised gains , otherwise what happens if one period they are up next period the value has reduced, so from fp's point of view he/she has not suddenly got all this extra cash to spend because one of his propeites has incresed by $20K, however if this means he can increase rent then will pay the income tax on the increased earnings.
    same would apply to shares/Bonds etc.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    I think it should only ever be on realised gains , otherwise what happens if one period they are up next period the value has reduced, so from fp's point of view he/she has not suddenly got all this extra cash to spend because one of his propeites has incresed by $20K, however if this means he can increase rent then will pay the income tax on the increased earnings.
    same would apply to shares/Bonds etc.
    It can only be on realised gains, it simply can't work any other way. Better still is the American system where it is only paid on exit. They can sell and as long as the money is reinvested within 12 months there is no tax to pay. This allows businesses to expand premises or farmers to step-up to larger holdings, likewise for investors. What's more it allows tax to be paid on retirement. For genuine investors in most cases this will be at a lower rate. At present under our system it is quite possible to flick over a property and spend every cent on a world trip - tax free. Is that fair? Get into it while you can by all means, but don't expect it to last forever.

  4. #94

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    I don't think it's going to be limited to property. Conceptually properties are no different to shares or any other business. They derive an income from providing a service (ie shelter).

    From the news this morning, it doesn't look like Labour is applying it only to property- it will include shares.

    The main issues for me are:
    - Our Govt already makes up close to half the economy, it's an excuse to increase taxes and Govt spending
    - It introduces more complexity to shares. How do you account for share slits, rights issues, buying and selling various amounts at different times, inflation indexing etc etc. It is one reason I don't invest in Australian shares personally (I'm an Australian tax resident). I do so with a NZ resident company even though it means I can't claim imputation credits- I really can't be bothered calculating CGT

  5. #95
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    Lissica The australian capital gains tax for shares is very simple. If NZ uses the same system it would be very good
    Possum The Cat

  6. #96
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    What system does Aus use?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by gv1 View Post
    What system does Aus use?


    http://www.ato.gov.au/content/00208572.htm

    Don't forget that they have a self funded retiree scheme which is just great for those who do not like paying tax. It's about the only good thing about the whole country.

  8. #98
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    Not so much CGT itself but you might find the following table interesting.

    44% of households are net tax recipients and 17% of households pay 97% of tax.

    Taken from: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/07/net_taxpayers.html
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #99
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    Well I like it!
    in the next few years EQC is going to give christchurch landlords brand spanking new houses and they won't have to pay any CGT on its new value. Thats up to five years worth of capital gain with no tax. I reckon theres at least least 6 1/2 years of capital gain and no tax for Cantabrians. Brilliant.

    I also like the first $5,000 of income being tax free. Thats less income for me, more for my whanau less tax I pay. Superb!

    No GST on fruit and veg. Great. I like fruit and veg and every week my whanaua get loads of the stuff. More loot to me. I wonder if KFC burgers will come down in price - that bit of fresh lettuce has to be a bit cheaper and Phil wants food to be more available to the poor. Excellent stuff.

    Now I'm no art buff but I know what I like. Looks like I'm going to have to become a bit more learned so I can tell the difference between a Hotere and a McCahon. My interest in gold has just waned.

    I'm really going to fancy those listed companie that plough profits back into growth rather than dividend yield. Two new classes take my fancy. Any listed companies out there that do valuations? Tasty! Also real Estate companies - they will become much more profitable as their fees now become tax deducible. Nice - we need to do what we can to get all those real estate agents back into work.

    Pikers will be happy. PRC last sale price is $0.88. They'll be able to carry their losses forward (except they think there won't be any losses because a knight in shining armour is about to snap the mine up and all will be well. You gotta love those guys who thrill at the drill)

    So Mr Goff. Not a bad afternoons work. You have a plan. JK may trump you with his cycle way economic prowess but election time will tell.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Well I like it!
    in the next few years EQC is going to give christchurch landlords brand spanking new houses and they won't have to pay any CGT on its new value. Thats up to five years worth of capital gain with no tax. I reckon theres at least least 6 1/2 years of capital gain and no tax for Cantabrians. Brilliant.

    I also like the first $5,000 of income being tax free. Thats less income for me, more for my whanau less tax I pay. Superb!

    No GST on fruit and veg. Great. I like fruit and veg and every week my whanaua get loads of the stuff.

    I can't believe Goff and his mates really think that Fruit and Veg would be cheaper just cos the GST has gone. Within a week the price would be back where it was. They know that. Supply and demand and nothing else sets the price on perishables. Sad to think they would compromise the simplicity of the current system for their own benefit, and no-one elses. Not only that, it would make a big hole in the tax take that will have to come from elsewhere, plus opening up fiddle-room. This is the silliest thing I have ever heard one of the main political parties announce.

  11. #101
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    Under Labour does it mean The FIF tax will be dumped?

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    I can't believe Goff and his mates really think that Fruit and Veg would be cheaper just cos the GST has gone.
    I think Goff may be a little lactose intolerant. Why keep GST on that nutritional staple, the bottle of milk. Doesn't he want the poor to stop drinking Coke? While we are at it why not take GST of porridge - nothing like a plate of hot gruel to start the day for the underprivileged.

    I'l now be interested in how landlords react. We are desperately short of housing stock and we need private individuals to invest in that market since government only holds around 15% of the total stock. If we see landlords retreat govt will need to spend more on housing which will see the CGT head off to more housing purchases by government. Kinda defeats their purpose since they see investment in housing as unproductive.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I think Goff may be a little lactose intolerant. Why keep GST on that nutritional staple, the bottle of milk. Doesn't he want the poor to stop drinking Coke? While we are at it why not take GST of porridge - nothing like a plate of hot gruel to start the day for the underprivileged.

    I'l now be interested in how landlords react. We are desperately short of housing stock and we need private individuals to invest in that market since government only holds around 15% of the total stock. If we see landlords retreat govt will need to spend more on housing which will see the CGT head off to more housing purchases by government. Kinda defeats their purpose since they see investment in housing as unproductive.
    Landlords won't care. Nobody will because Labour will not see the treasury benches while Goff is at the helm and the new broom will rework some of this stuff. But that's two elections away. They haven't got a Goff replacement yet unless Clayton Cosgrove has a fling. Hughes has gone. Shane Jones stuffed his chances. Cunliffe would not appeal to the masses. David Parker just aint got it. National are pretty safe for long enough.

  14. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by POSSUM THE CAT View Post
    Lissica The australian capital gains tax for shares is very simple. If NZ uses the same system it would be very good
    So you buy 6789 shares of XYZ on a particular date, reinvest in their DRP and acquire another 73 shares on another date at a different price, then subscribe to a rights issue on another date at a different price, some time later you sell 357 shares (at a loss), buy back another 900 shares at another date, then another company takes it over using a mixture of script and cash payment.

    Now multiply that by however many shares in your portfolio. Is there an easy way around this or do we have to have to spend all day in front of a spreadsheet?

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by lissica View Post
    So you buy 6789 shares of XYZ on a particular date, reinvest in their DRP and acquire another 73 shares on another date at a different price, then subscribe to a rights issue on another date at a different price, some time later you sell 357 shares (at a loss), buy back another 900 shares at another date, then another company takes it over using a mixture of script and cash payment.

    Now multiply that by however many shares in your portfolio. Is there an easy way around this or do we have to have to spend all day in front of a spreadsheet?
    do you use LIFO, FIFO or weighted average?
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