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  1. #16
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    I am waiting for the announcement of SPP, so i just need to spend $30+ for the engagement of SPP

  2. #17
    percy
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    The article by Tim Hunter in today's Sunday Star Times on Heartland is well balanced and fair.
    "And while there are undoubted risks that Heartland will not achieve its goals,its management have so far demonstrated a clear strategy and excellent execution.
    On those grounds it may earn a place in the portfolio."

  3. #18
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    Yes Percy a well balanced article but I hope Hunter wasn't swayed by what Cairns from Forbar told him .... that guy is more passionate about PGC/HNZ than you are

    As long as HNZ remember that at the core of their business is 2 old fashioned Building Societies they should do OK - building societies that traditionally solid instutions which for generations have taken members savings in and prudently lent that money out on rock solid investments without taking on much leverage and associated risk.

    Go too far away from this principles and think they can make zillions from a different approach then maybe the aspirations wont be achieved

    Bit of a worry when that head finance man says 'Heartland aims to encourage depositors by becoming a bank, reasoning that people are more relaxed about putting money in a bank than with a finance company' So is becoming a bank just one big (and expensive) marketing ploy

  4. #19
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    This is what happens when Building Societies become financial instutions with a treasury department and change their business model .... and probably why the world is in such a mess today

    A great article by John Kay in the Financial Times - We let down diligent folk at the Halifax
    http://www.johnkay.com/2008/09/24/we...at-the-halifax

    Even if you don't read the whole article (it is a short one) read this bit

    The business I joined gathered deposits from small savers, mostly through its branches. It lent the proceeds to house buyers. Founded as a self-help organisation by provident Yorkshire folk 150 years ago, the Halifax became the world’s largest mortgage lender. Its quality of service and competitive interest rates trounced conventional banks in the UK retail savings market. The simple business model was very robust. In the early 1990s, a combination of high interest rates, recession and falling house prices posed much more serious problems for UK homeowners than anything seen, or likely, in the current credit crunch. But the Halifax remained profitable and mortgages readily available

    Accepting deposits and underwriting and administering mortgages requires that millions of records should be maintained and updated every day with almost no errors. This activity does not require flair or imagination but does require conscientious individuals with integrity and loyalty. The Halifax was a precision machine that made the most of the talents of ordinary people. I came to understand the fundamental incompatibility of the cultures of retail and investment banking and why the marriage of the two so often leads to tears.

    Accepting deposits and underwriting and administering mortgages requires that millions of records should be maintained and updated every day with almost no errors. This activity does not require flair or imagination but does require conscientious individuals with integrity and loyalty. The Halifax was a precision machine that made the most of the talents of ordinary people. I came to understand the fundamental incompatibility of the cultures of retail and investment banking and why the marriage of the two so often leads to tears.


    (Really a story about business sustainability but thats another topic)

  5. #20
    percy
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Yes Percy a well balanced article but I hope Hunter wasn't swayed by what Cairns from Forbar told him .... that guy is more passionate about PGC/HNZ than you are

    As long as HNZ remember that at the core of their business is 2 old fashioned Building Societies they should do OK - building societies that traditionally solid instutions which for generations have taken members savings in and prudently lent that money out on rock solid investments without taking on much leverage and associated risk.

    Go too far away from this principles and think they can make zillions from a different approach then maybe the aspirations wont be achieved

    Bit of a worry when that head finance man says 'Heartland aims to encourage depositors by becoming a bank, reasoning that people are more relaxed about putting money in a bank than with a finance company' So is becoming a bank just one big (and expensive) marketing ploy
    Marac was a very successful finance company for a good number of years ,before it got involved in property lending,which was its undoing.Made and still makes good money on business,motor vehicle, and plant lending.

  6. #21
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    It is going south ... Seems PGC is holding up better than HNZ right now...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgarion View Post
    http://www.nzx.com/markets/NZSX/HNZ/...apital-Raising

    Wayhey! Nice outcome for small investors.

    Some fun and games to be had before the SPP tho [evil grin]
    Belgarion, when you say nice outcome for small investors - is your rationale that small investors if they don't buy into the SPP won't have their holding diluted ?

  8. #23
    Senior Member kizame's Avatar
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    If there are shares issued,and you don't take part,then your holding will be diluted.

    I think Belgarion is refering to the discount to net asset backing of the SPP,but I'm sure he will elaborate.
    Last edited by kizame; 20-07-2011 at 08:29 AM.

  9. #24
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    Small investors can buy a few now and take part in the spp at a price which will either be better than (possibly much better than) or the same as other institutional investors.

    They can also wait until after the results are out to make a decision on making an investment of up to $15,000 - these results are going to be fairly critical in giving some insight as to how HNZ might perform in the future, so that is a considerable amount of de-risking around their purchase.

    However, the only thing not clear to me is what the cut-off date for owning shares in the spp is. The details are due to be announced by tomorrow - given the spp is going to open on 8 August, it is possible there may not be much time/too late to get on?

    (bought a few anyway at 62cps - am assuming there is a reasonable chance of getting access to the spp still)
    Last edited by Lizard; 20-07-2011 at 09:19 AM.

  10. #25
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    There will be a few fund management institutions with their noses out of joint? Underwriting to be done without them being involved and they have been doing their usual selling down in anticipation that they will get reset via the underwriting.

  11. #26
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    Underwritten by Impact Capital Management - formed July 1 2011, 100 shares, 100% owned by Impact Capital, 100 shares, owned by Greg Tomlinson, involving Richard Oliver

    Seems like GK is having to call in favours from old Macquarie mates to get these deals away............

  12. #27
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    Hmmmm... Liz could be right... Holding but not salivating.... Yet !!!..

  13. #28
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    Just nosing around at the companies office and noticed there are approved name reservations there for Heartland Insurance Ltd, Heartland Kiwisaver Ltd, Heartland Trustee NZ Ltd, Heartland Building Society Ltd, Heartland Wealth Management Ltd.... at that rate, I half expected to come across a "Heartland Property Management Ltd" (No, there wasn't)

    Not sure if they are just covering off the bases or an indication of strategic direction?

  14. #29
    percy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard View Post
    Just nosing around at the companies office and noticed there are approved name reservations there for Heartland Insurance Ltd, Heartland Kiwisaver Ltd, Heartland Trustee NZ Ltd, Heartland Building Society Ltd, Heartland Wealth Management Ltd.... at that rate, I half expected to come across a "Heartland Property Management Ltd" (No, there wasn't)

    Not sure if they are just covering off the bases or an indication of strategic direction?
    Would think they are just covering bases,making sure no one else uses their name.Marac had insurance,so expect that is now Heartland Insurance.Trustee they would need,kiwisaver I don't know,building soc would be to cover the building socirties that joined Marac to form Heartland.
    "Property management" may still be, and most probably remain a swear word for some time as that was Marac's down fall. Maybe in a year or two.!!!!

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Bit of a worry when that head finance man says 'Heartland aims to encourage depositors by becoming a bank, reasoning that people are more relaxed about putting money in a bank than with a finance company' So is becoming a bank just one big (and expensive) marketing ploy
    Not a holder Winner69, but I am becoming very uneasy about Heartland. What do you think of this observation?

    I am presently visiting the Kapiti Coast and have read today's edition of the Dominion and the local rag the Kapiti Observer, both dated Wednesday 20th July.

    On page B7 of the Dominion is an ad for PGG Wrightson Finance, an organization which seems inevitably destined to become part of Heartland. They are advertising a 12 month secured term deposit offering 7.5% per annum. This is despite the small print in the ad that notes any such investment will become a deposit with Heartland that will consequently be unsecured in a couple of months time (no mention of that last clause in the ad of course).

    Then on p13 of the Kapiti Observer, a real 'heartland' publication (sic), Heartland are offering a 12 month term deposit rate of 6.25% per annum. This seems to be quite a big gap for what is ostensibly the same investment, even allowing for the fact the 'small print' shows that the PGG Wrightson Finance 7.5% rate is for investments of $100,000 plus.

    The headline on the Heartland ad states 'We invest in Wellington'. Immediately I am thinking, no you don't! You are primarily the old Southern Cross and CBS Canterbury Building Societies, investing in the heart of the South Island. Oh and you are also Marac investing in the manufacturing heart of Wellington (yeah right, let me know if you can't count any manufacturer's left in Wellington on one hand!)

    I can't help the impression that Heartland is really old rope painted and tarted up as a new frilly bow knot. The marketing budget is being spent to allow the paying of lower interest rates to depositors than a BBB- credit rated organization might otherwise offer. Pull the wrong string and the whole lot might unravel. I really, really hope that I am wrong.

    I would like to see Heartland succeed. I think NZ inc. needs it! But is a 'Salt of the Earth' name and a hyped marketing budget really the key to the path of success?

    SNOOPY

    discl: Hold PGW, who are in the process of divesting PGG Wrightson Finance.
    Last edited by Snoopy; 20-07-2011 at 09:32 PM.
    Industry shorthand sees BNZ employees still called 'bankers' but ANZ employees now called 'anchors'. Westpac has opted out of banking industry shorthand...

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