HGH - Heartland Group Holdings

[winner69]

As always thank you for the link.
Yes the greedy bankers have slowly been destroying the world since the first bank was formed in 1472.I expect they will continue to do so for the next 543 years.!!
Any guess as to what HNZ sp will be then?

Good one Percy

Maybe in 543 years time Heartland will be in headlines like this one of a year or so ago

Founded in 1472, world's oldest bank downgraded to junk status

Monte dei Paschi di Siena is the bank in question

[winner69]

As always thank you for the link.
Yes the greedy bankers have slowly been destroying the world since the first bank was formed in 1472.I expect they will continue to do so for the next 543 years.!!
Any guess as to what HNZ sp will be then?

...quote Percy "......slowly been destroying the world' ...... maybe yes ......but the speed of such destroying has increased in modern times.

Some might say that with excessive interest margins (ones even Shylock would be proud of) nearly double their peers Heartland is an anti-social bank and doesn't serve the community well ....and it is these sort of greedynthings that is creating that increasing momentum.

[percy]

...quote Percy "......slowly been destroying the world' ...... maybe yes ......but the speed of such destroying has increased in modern times.

Some might say that with excessive interest margins nearly double their peers Heartland is an anti-social bank and doesn't serve the community well ....and it is these sort of greedynthings that is creating that increasing momentum.

Yes I guess it is like a lot of things in life.Three or more sides to every story.
I would think your view on banks would vary depending on whether you are a depositor,borrower,or an owner.
I am reminded of the chap who told his friends, at the bowling club, he was taking his money out of his bank and putting it with a finance company, to get a higher interest rate.Then told his friends his son far was having to work a lot of extra overtime to pay his mortgage,as the bank was charging him too higher an interest rate.....
What is your old saying,"the more things change,the more they remain the same."??!!

[winner69]

Yes I guess it is like a lot of things in life.Three or more sides to every story.
I would think your view on banks would vary depending on whether you are a depositor,borrower,or an owner

The fourth view is a more general view of what's best for the the world

At the moment it's the owners (we'll include managers in this category) who are the ones stuffing the world by being really greedy and expecting/making excessive returns

[percy]

The fourth view is a more general view of what's best for the the world

At the moment it's the owners (we'll include managers in this category) who are the ones stuffing the world by being really greedy and expecting/making excessive returns

Maybe the fourth view is more balanced as they have no skin in the game,yet I can't help but think of the politicians, who always promise "a fair and just" solution to everything, without saying to whom it is "fair and just."!!!!!

[winner69]

Maybe the fourth view is more balanced as they have no skin in the game,yet I can't help but think of the politicians, who always promise "a fair and just" solution to everything, without saying to whom it is "fair and just."!!!!!

But politicians are at th beck and call of the money men ....the greedy ones ....that's why it's usually not 'fair and just' to the populous but as you say 'fair and just' to those that matter.

[percy]

But politicians are at th beck and call of the money men ....the greedy ones ....that's why it's usually not 'fair and just' to the populous but as you say 'fair and just' to those that matter.

Sorry I can't give you a link,but those that matter sure helped themselves!!!
Yahoo business and finance NZ.....Moldova looks for answers as $1billion disapperars...

[mfd]

...quote Percy "......slowly been destroying the world' ...... maybe yes ......but the speed of such destroying has increased in modern times.

Some might say that with excessive interest margins (ones even Shylock would be proud of) nearly double their peers Heartland is an anti-social bank and doesn't serve the community well ....and it is these sort of greedynthings that is creating that increasing momentum.

I've been wondering about this - is the higher interest margin here the sign of a well run business, or is it purely related to a higher proportion of risky loans? Are they getting cheaper funding (presumably not with the new market beating savings account), are customers willingly paying higher interest or are they taking business that no-one else will touch?

I have no axe to grind here, just curious to see what peoples interpretation of this is? Is it an asset or a warning sign?

[percy]

I've been wondering about this - is the higher interest margin here the sign of a well run business, or is it purely related to a higher proportion of risky loans? Are they getting cheaper funding (presumably not with the new market beating savings account), are customers willingly paying higher interest or are they taking business that no-one else will touch?

I have no axe to grind here, just curious to see what peoples interpretation of this is? Is it an asset or a warning sign?

Welcome mfd,and Winner69 is our resident axe grinder!!!! lol..
Heartland Bank is not low margin home mortgage driven,as is the case with the "major" banks.
Heartland Bank has a wide spread of more profitable,usually shorter term loans.The spread include Resverse equity loans on houses,Motor Vehicle, and equipment loans,Rural loans often on livestock,and seasonal loans.
So the makeup of Heartland Bank's lending is in the more profitable areas.
Any investor in banks, or finance companies, needs to keep an eye on the spread of loans,ie not too many eggs in one basket,and the level of bad loans.Heartland Bank has a good spread of loans and impairements [bad loans] are at acceptable levels.

[Beagle]

Welcome mfd,and Winner69 is our resident axe grinder!!!! lol..
Heartland Bank is not low margin home mortgage driven,as is the case with the "major" banks.
Heartland Bank has a wide spread of more profitable,usually shorter term loans.The spread include Resverse equity loans on houses,Motor Vehicle, and equipment loans,Rural loans often on livestock,and seasonal loans.
So the makeup of Heartland Bank's lending is in the more profitable areas.
Any investor in banks, or finance companies, needs to keep an eye on the spread of loans,ie not too many eggs in one basket,and the level of bad loans.Heartland Bank has a good spread of loans and impairements [bad loans] are at acceptable levels.

Nice summary.

Some of the left leaning socialist views expressed on this page are quite surprising from one that clearly knows the basics of capitalism 101 extremely well, not you mate this is directed at someone else.

Some could be forgiven for thinking a certain poster sold down their position and is trying to jawbone the SP down.

Hopefully this post turns the page...as much of this one simply isn't worth reading, opps did I really say that out loud lol

Damm it didn't. Okay... best I post some more content then.

I watched HNZ's elongated new reverse equity mortgage television advertisement this morning.

Leaving aside the issue of whether this makes a quick and punchy / cost effective campaign or not...

It certainly makes an emotional argument about helping older folks stay where they belong in their own homes where they feel most comfortable.

A left leaning anti capitalist would of course try and make the argument that such loans to old folks are a scandal seeing they're at greater margins that for regular bank loans and seeing as potentially they could make quite a significant impact on the next generations inheritance.

On the other hand a right thinking capitalist would make the case that they're providing a profoundly valuable service helping our seniors stay in their homes and enjoy a quality lifestyle or much needed medical services or whatever other thing an older client might like.

Remind me again who's equity in who's home is it and who's right is it to make their own decisions about spending some of it ?

Its all about one's perspective...

I think with all due respect to our friends apparently new found social conscience, references to shylock type lending rates are best directed at the pay day lenders charging exorbitant interest rates.

I wouldn't invest in one of those payday lending operations as a matter of principle and I would venture to suggest many shareholders in HNZ would find the suggestion that their bank is a shylock operation quite offensive.

Have we turned the page yet ?

No Okay...what else.

Well many will be somewhat perplexed by this weeks turn of events with Quadrant private equity's apparent placement of the stake it already had from its ownership of Seniors limited when their stake of 43m shares vested, came out of escrow.

A certain experienced accountant should have been alerted by the term "in specie" but bought anyway thinking the overhang had gone.

Lesson for the week, carefully read and digest the full content and meaning of company notifications.

So what to make of this peculiar arrangement ?

We see its been placed in two of quadrants funds which possibly suggests either:-

1. Its been placed there to stay more permanently than would have been suggested by the previous press release saying they were going to sell their stake

2. Quadrant don't think this is the opportune time to sell.

3. Both of the above.

It seems to me that the market was extremely well informed of their intention to sell down as expressed many months ago

To my mind its extremely rare for a major shareholder to signal their intent so many months in advance and the market very clearly anticipated a placement of some sort with most major institutions withdrawing their bids in recent weeks.

The subsequent effect on the SP was plain for all to see.

Seeing as the market was so primed for a placement and one didn't occur what do we make of this ?

Its appears to me Quadrant simply aren't prepared to sell into a placement that would probably have had to be made in the low $1.20 range to get the volume away and done and dusted.

At the minimum we can draw the conclusion reading between the lines, (those of us interested in such capitalist ramblings and theories that is), that Quadrant as an activist private equity fund with a long and well established and reputation, see value in HNZ at the current level..so maybe the silly old accountant who thought the overhang had gone and bought anyway, wasn't so silly after all

Surely this elongated post turns the page of some strange previous left wing ramblings.

No okay its time for an update and some fundamental analysis then.

Consensus broker estimates for the year to 30 June 2015 are 10.2 cents per share. This puts them on a 2015 PE at $1.29 of 12.64 which in my view is very cheap for a bank growing EPS at a very healthy rate.

Consensus broker estimates for the year to 30 June 2016 are 11.0 cents per share.

Prospective Dividend Yield 2015.
We have 3.0 cents fully imputed in the bank as we know. I'm expecting 4.5 cents fully imputed for the final divvy so that's 7.5 cents fully imputed for the year. 7.5 / 0.72 = 10.417 cents gross or a gross divvy yield of 8.07%.

Prospective Dividend Yield 2016
The company has a good record of growing dividends so for those that think a minimum of one year ahead, (the writer included), we could estimate dividends next year at 8.5 cps fully imputed or 11.81 cents gross. This puts HNZ on a prospective 2016 gross dividend yield of 9.16%.

Obviously this is vastly higher than what you'll get out of any of the Australian owned banks, one or two of which only offer partial imputation with their more meagre dividends.

9.16% divvy yield and with the prospect of growing steadily in subsequent years is enough to get any dividend hound with any kind of vague idea of sniffing for a big steady feed absolutely salivating with delight.
It seems I need some help to turn the page so would some else please chime in with some worthy insights.

More content on how banks actually help their clients grow their business and help our older folks enjoy staying in their homes would be most welcome

Crikey this turned into a very long page, probably not helped by this post lol

Still we have yet to turn the page so its time for more debate...Are Banks Evil ?
Well that depends, banks are a necessary Evil but they don't have to be EVIL.

Are Banks Actually Evil, or Does It Just Seem That Way?

By John Maxfield | More Articles
January 25, 2015 | Comments (18)




It has been more than six years since the nation's biggest financial institutions crashed the global economy and had to be bailed out by U.S. taxpayers. However, this shouldn't be interpreted to mean Wall Street financiers are now on the straight and narrow.

Last week, the country's four largest banks by assets reported earnings for the final three months of 2014. Aside from Wells Fargo, it was an altogether dismal affair.

In addition to the widely publicized impact of lower trading revenue, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, and Citigroup all suffered from larger than expected legal expenses that weighed on their bottom lines.

The expenses weren't related to the behaviors that caused the financial crisis, which, it's worth pointing out, cost the banks tens of billions of dollars in legal fees and expenses over the last few years. They stemmed instead from new allegations of malfeasance, such as rigging foreign-exchange markets.

With this in mind, you'd be excused for wondering if the banks learned anything from the reputational damage they suffered during and after the crisis. And you'd also be excused for wondering, as I do in the presentation below, whether our biggest banks are actually evil, or if it just seems that way.


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Apple recently recruited a secret-development "dream team" to guarantee its newest smart device was kept hidden from the public for as long as possible. But the secret is out, and some early viewers are claiming it's destined to change everything from banking to health care. In fact, ABI Research predicts 485 million of this type of device will be sold per year. But one small company makes Apple's gadget possible. And its stock price has nearly unlimited room to run for early in-the-know investors. To be one of them, and see Apple's newest smart gizmo, just click here!

So what makes a bank Evil ?

Some perspective. Do we see HNZ leveraging themselves by a factor of 800 in the derivative markets and making what amounted to a one-way bet on the derivative market such that if the bet failed there was no choice but to socialise the losses like a certain American bank did ?

Do we see HNZ packing up bunches of extremely dodgy loans and securitising them and encouraging Standard and Poors to rate there CDO's as AAA and sell them to an unsuspecting public that didn't understand those investments like another American Bank did and Forsyth Barr did with their Credit Sails CDO's they sold to unsuspecting elderly clients as a safe and sound fixed interest product !!

No we see fair and reasonable interest rates for the risks involved.