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  1. #14001
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    I am more curious about if HGH will have any sentiment to sell its shares once the escrow restrictions expire.
    Selling the shares would increase HGH's capital reserve to meet the future capital requirement.

  2. #14002
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    Quote Originally Posted by zs_cecil View Post
    I am more curious about if HGH will have any sentiment to sell its shares once the escrow restrictions expire.
    Selling the shares would increase HGH's capital reserve to meet the future capital requirement.

    ....or go a long way to funding a divie.
    “What the wise man does in the beginning, the fool does in the end”

  3. #14003
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    Quote Originally Posted by King1212 View Post
    Revaluation of HGH..will see sp will also be re rated
    What you mean is that the listing of Harmoney may cause a re-rating of the holding price of the Heartland 8.44% stake in Harmoney.

    https://www.nzx.com/announcements/363561

    You would be right but it would be a one off profit boost. If the share price went down in the months following there would be a one off profit loss. So I don't think HGH can use that Harmoney stake as a source of equity to lend against from a Reserve Bank oversight stance. And I don't think HGH could pay a dividend as a result of any such capital gain either. (unless of course the Harmoney stake was sold),

    SNOOPY
    Industry shorthand sees BNZ employees still called 'bankers' but ANZ employees now called 'anchors'. Westpac has opted out of banking industry shorthand...

  4. #14004
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    I must be out of date with the very latest rocket science IFRS accounting standards. It seems weird to me that just because the shares they own in another company have gone up they are reporting that as part of their realised profit for the year ? Dumb out of date crusty old suburban bean counter I am. All my training was a profit cannot be reported as such until it is real profit, i.e. realised.

    This modern approach of counting profits (while something is in escrow and cannot be sold) is lost on me. IFRS16 accounting for leases another "fine" example that makes me wonder if the academic accounting boffins in Brussels or Switzerland or wherever they promulgate their latest idea's, haven't got enough to do ? Maybe its time to retire and forget about all this stupid nonsense...

    Lending money unsecured to people heading into a Covid deep recession based on a whole bunch of assumptions they probably dredged up from GFC days and loaded onto a digital platform also seems like a situation where it surely begs the question, what could possibly go wrong

    Thankfully there's the old fashioned reverse equity loans that are simple to understand, have very good net interest margins and you're lending money to people that will definitely pay it back from their estate. Best part of HGH's business model by a VERY VERY long way and easily understandable !!
    Last edited by Beagle; 20-11-2020 at 11:44 AM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  5. #14005
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    Pleasing noting discussion on HGH's gain on purchase price of their stake in Harmoney.
    Bet we all would have a lot more to say had they lost money on the investment..lol.

  6. #14006
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    It is the same thing as property revaluation.

  7. #14007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    I must be out of date with the very latest rocket science IFRS accounting standards. It seems weird to me that just because the shares they own in another company have gone up they are reporting that as part of their realised profit for the year ? Dumb out of date crusty old suburban bean counter I am. All my training was a profit cannot be reported as such until it is real profit, i.e. realised.

    This modern approach of counting profits (while something is in escrow and cannot be sold) is lost on me. IFRS16 accounting for leases makes me wonder if the academic accounting boffins in Zurich or wherever they promulgate their latest idea's haven't got enough to do ? Maybe its time to retire and forget about all this stupid nonsense...
    Agree there's some silly results from IRFS16, but this just looks to be applying the long standing idea of mark to market with a twist because they can't sell yet.

  8. #14008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    I must be out of date with the very latest rocket science IFRS accounting standards. It seems weird to me that just because the shares they own in another company have gone up they are reporting that as part of their realised profit for the year ? Dumb out of date crusty old suburban bean counter I am. All my training was a profit cannot be reported as such until it is real profit, i.e. realised.
    At 8.44%, the Heartland Harmoney stake is an unconsolidated investment. There has been no open market for Harmoney shares. Now there is. So whatever book value the Heartland stake had, there is now a measuring stick to compare it to. Therefore any difference between the book value of the Harmoney stake and the market value of the Harmoney stake must be reported as profit by Heartland for this half year. This is the reason behind the 'profit upgrade' announcement that Heartland made to the market today. As you note though, it is not a realised profit and in my view any such profit should be ignored as a one off.

    I am surprised you bring up the subject of 'realised profit' at Heartland though. The vast majority of those reverse home equity profits are unrealised. If you discounted unrealised profits, you wouldn't want to be on the Heartland share register I would have thought!

    SNOOPY
    Industry shorthand sees BNZ employees still called 'bankers' but ANZ employees now called 'anchors'. Westpac has opted out of banking industry shorthand...

  9. #14009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoopy View Post
    At 8.44%, the Heartland Harmoney stake is an unconsolidated investment. There has been no open market for Harmoney shares. Now there is. So whatever book value the Heartland stake had, there is now a measuring stick to compare it to. Therefore any difference between the book value of the Harmoney stake and the market value of the Harmoney stake must be reported as profit by Heartland for this half year. This is the reason behind the 'profit upgrade' announcement that Heartland made to the market today. As you note though, it is not a realised profit and in my view any such profit should be ignored as a one off.

    I am surprised you bring up the subject of 'realised profit' at Heartland though. The vast majority of those reverse home equity profits are unrealised. If you discounted unrealised profits, you wouldn't want to be on the Heartland share register I would have thought!

    SNOOPY
    Snoops me ol mate I think we both know you're just pulling my leg (paw ?). Accounting for accrued interest validly charged on loan contracts on reverse interest mortgage with a certain end game outcome and much more predictable house price values is a very different thing that accounting for theoretical gains on fintech companies with shares in escrow. Still, a theoretical gain is a gain that theoretically might need to be revalued again one way or the other and if they want to count some valuation they dream up as income in the meantime good for them. Like you suggested, I am going to simply ignore it as a one-off or maybe offset some of it against possible under provisioning for Covid. Before you do more than just pull my paw, I would hasten to add that I did buy some more this week
    Last edited by Beagle; 20-11-2020 at 05:48 PM.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  10. #14010
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    So retirement (property) companies can take asset revaluations through the P&L but Heartland can't?

  11. #14011
    Hunting for more dog food Beagle's Avatar
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    Property and retirement companies have special rules. Most professional investors and analysts with respect to retirement companies look at underlying profit anyway which strips out unrealised valuation gains and takes them off to a safe place called embedded value where they stay until they are realised. Sorry, No more accounting standard discussion for this dog today.
    No butts, hold no mutts, (unless they're the furry variety).

  12. #14012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    I must be out of date with the very latest rocket science IFRS accounting standards. It seems weird to me that just because the shares they own in another company have gone up they are reporting that as part of their realised profit for the year ? Dumb out of date crusty old suburban bean counter I am. All my training was a profit cannot be reported as such until it is real profit, i.e. realised.

    This modern approach of counting profits (while something is in escrow and cannot be sold) is lost on me. IFRS16 accounting for leases another "fine" example that makes me wonder if the academic accounting boffins in Brussels or Switzerland or wherever they promulgate their latest idea's, haven't got enough to do ? Maybe its time to retire and forget about all this stupid nonsense...

    Lending money unsecured to people heading into a Covid deep recession based on a whole bunch of assumptions they probably dredged up from GFC days and loaded onto a digital platform also seems like a situation where it surely begs the question, what could possibly go wrong

    Thankfully there's the old fashioned reverse equity loans that are simple to understand, have very good net interest margins and you're lending money to people that will definitely pay it back from their estate. Best part of HGH's business model by a VERY VERY long way and easily understandable !!
    I'm with on that one Beagle - in my distant past training revaluation gains (loss) were taken direct
    to Revaluation Reserve & not through P&P account

    On the positive - a rough back of the card tot up suggests HGH's Harmoney gain looks like 4.75 - 4.9 cps across
    HGH issued capital, ignoring ins & outs of of effects of restrictions on their disposal, working on roughly NZ 35.0 cps
    ingoing in 2014 - which may or may not be the case
    Last edited by nztx; 20-11-2020 at 09:13 PM.
    ... the fine art of sniffing out debits & credits hidden under the carpet can pay dividends ...

  13. #14013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beagle View Post
    I must be out of date with the very latest rocket science IFRS accounting standards. It seems weird to me that just because the shares they own in another company have gone up they are reporting that as part of their realised profit for the year ? Dumb out of date crusty old suburban bean counter I am. All my training was a profit cannot be reported as such until it is real profit, i.e. realised.

    This modern approach of counting profits (while something is in escrow and cannot be sold) is lost on me. IFRS16 accounting for leases another "fine" example that makes me wonder if the academic accounting boffins in Brussels or Switzerland or wherever they promulgate their latest idea's, haven't got enough to do ? Maybe its time to retire and forget about all this stupid nonsense...

    Lending money unsecured to people heading into a Covid deep recession based on a whole bunch of assumptions they probably dredged up from GFC days and loaded onto a digital platform also seems like a situation where it surely begs the question, what could possibly go wrong

    Thankfully there's the old fashioned reverse equity loans that are simple to understand, have very good net interest margins and you're lending money to people that will definitely pay it back from their estate. Best part of HGH's business model by a VERY VERY long way and easily understandable !!
    Much to even my surprise I have seen that indeed there are different accounting practises and different way accountants do stuff. I have have had three different accountants and I learn something from each of them. I am now using a chartered accountant and the way they do things is extraordinary in regards to legal tax minimisation. The world is constantly changing in the accounting world as my current accountant starts at 8.30am and leaves the office around 7pm most nights. I have come to discover that some accountants are just glorified bookkeepers.

  14. #14014
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    Can someone help knock off that big wall of resistance at 1.45..

  15. #14015
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    Quote Originally Posted by sb9 View Post
    Can someone help knock off that big wall of resistance at 1.45..
    I wonder if I offer them a crisp $5 note for all those shares

  16. #14016
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    An article from Business Desk talks about the Australian ‘Retirement Income Review’ released last week and it seems happy with their 9% contribution on the basis that retirees use their capital more efficiently which means they should use Reverse Mortgages to ACCESS THEIR EQUITY!

    Regulators are now encouraging RELS so they dont have to raise contribution rates to 12% (which slows economy down) .

    gotta be good tail winds for HGH
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  17. #14017
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    Keeps getting slammed every time it tries move up a bit, wonder if ASM on Monday will break the shackles...

  18. #14018
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    How long until Reserve Bank releases it's straight jacket on banks paying dividends ?

    should that happen - take the brake off - who knows $2 or further north could be likely ..

    I may be wrong, but in comparison to the rest of the market HGH looks to me to be undervalued ..
    Last edited by nztx; 28-11-2020 at 04:18 PM.
    ... the fine art of sniffing out debits & credits hidden under the carpet can pay dividends ...

  19. #14019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ggcc View Post
    I wonder if I offer them a crisp $5 note for all those shares

    I'd be quick if I were you - in a few months time your crisp note might only afford a matching pair ..
    ... the fine art of sniffing out debits & credits hidden under the carpet can pay dividends ...

  20. #14020
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    I thought it was ending in March. Sure I read that somewhere..

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