Seeka

[blackie]

brilliant Jiggs
this is why i try to read every post on every thread on sharetrader.
an absolute gem

[Biscuit]

When I was a kid, chinese gooseberries were smaller than golf balls, and the plants had come from seeds of the 'Yang Tau' or 'Mi Hau Tau' vines that a missionary woman had brought back to Wanganui from the Yangtze gorge area sometime about 1910?. In about 1920? large numbers of seeds from the vines she grew were sent to nurserymen Hayward Wright near Auckland and Bruno Just near Palmerston North.

Hyperactive Bruno grew hundreds of vines and sold them as ornamentals at first, he then cross-pollenated flowers from the sturdiest plants with the biggest fruit, and kept repeating the process until after about 30? years he had a disease-resistant plant, and huge-but-coarse fruit.

Over the same decades Hayward Wright had produced a tasty and moderately large fruited variety, but susceptible to root-rot. So Bruno spent the next ten years figuring out how to graft the soft-tissued Hayward shoots onto his bullet-proof roots. (His grafts kept producing big foaming callouses thought to be disease cankers) When Bruno had it perfected, the NZ kiwifruit boom started, and DSIR staff took over developing other varieties. I worked with a member of the Just family.

The big disease-resistant Hayward/Bruno plants was/is very different from the Yang-Tau vines growing near the Yangtze gorge.

So, that's great. Now New Zealand and Chinese growers both benefit from the hard work of Wright and Just and researchers at Hort Research improving a Chinese plant. Surely that is a good thing isn't it? What's the problem?

[Biscuit]

The gold hybrid variety was developed in NZ and subject to IP protection. That is what this whole issue is about.

Except that its not is it? If it were subject to IP protection, we could enforce it. We can't enforce it in China, therefore it is not subject to IP protection, at least in China. So, legally, no its not protected. Morally? Well, I'd say it was a Chinese plant originally, so get over it.

[Joshuatree]

China has screwed us over big time on this. .Over 4000 acres or hectares now of these Goldie's growing there. Growers here have to pay well into 6 figs per hectare.Its a lose/ lose for us.

[Biscuit]

China has screwed us over big time on this. .Over 4000 acres or hectares now of these Goldie's growing there. Growers here have to pay well into 6 figs per hectare.Its a lose/ lose for us.

Growers here have to pay to grow the variety in New Zealand because it is IP protected here. That's just business right, no one is losing. In China, the IP is not protected, they just took cuttings from New Zealand and now they are growing them. So, I don't think they are losing? How is that lose-lose?

[kiora]

IP pretty tricky really. How does this compare to Pinot Noir in NZ
https://www.newworld.co.nz/discover/...t-noir-history

"Introducing Malcolm Abel
Malcolm Abel was a Customs Officer at Auckland Airport. One day, he discovered a grape vine cutting inside the gumboot of a returning passenger.

Curious, he questioned the passenger and was told the cutting had been taken in secret from the legendary La Tache Vineyard in Domaine Romanee Conti.

This got Abel’s attention!

Abel was in the process of establishing a vineyard in Kumeu, North of Auckland and he saw the value in keeping the cutting. So, rather than destroy it, he confiscated it, saw it through the correct quarantine process and planted it in his vineyard."

[BlackPeter]

IP pretty tricky really. How does this compare to Pinot Noir in NZ
https://www.newworld.co.nz/discover/...t-noir-history

"Introducing Malcolm Abel
Malcolm Abel was a Customs Officer at Auckland Airport. One day, he discovered a grape vine cutting inside the gumboot of a returning passenger.

Curious, he questioned the passenger and was told the cutting had been taken in secret from the legendary La Tache Vineyard in Domaine Romanee Conti.

This got Abel’s attention!

Abel was in the process of establishing a vineyard in Kumeu, North of Auckland and he saw the value in keeping the cutting. So, rather than destroy it, he confiscated it, saw it through the correct quarantine process and planted it in his vineyard."

I agree. It is just a normal human habit (and actually the habit which brought us to the top of the food chain) to copy / steal / reproduce good ideas ...

Nobody paid IP for copying the use of the wheel or the use of fire ... and New Zealand benefitted as anybody else from copying good ideas (IP) as well as using genetic material developed and grown by others.

Nobody paid IP fees to the people who developed the fruit trees the early settler brought to New Zealand ... and I am sure more than one brought material secretly taken from some of the top growers in Europe who put a lot of effort into growing this particular strain or breed.

Don't think either we can take the moral high ground on this issue while selling e.g. Gouda or Edamer or Parmesan cheese made in New Zealand. We copy / steal ideas and cultures if we can get away with it, and so does anybody else.

Sure - people need to abide the law of their land, and - in general - there is a case for IP protection (as long as it does not strangle general improvements), but pointing fingers to a whole country just because we think that in this particular case some individuals in this country managed to benefit from something developed in New Zealand is pretty ridiculous.

[BlackPeter]

China has screwed us over big time on this. .Over 4000 acres or hectares now of these Goldie's growing there. Growers here have to pay well into 6 figs per hectare.Its a lose/ lose for us.

Actually - It is quite easy to grow Kiwi fruit from their seeds. Given that we sell these fruit for lots of money to overseas countries, what would be wrong with anybody just following these simple steps to grow their own?

https://foodiegardener.com/how-to-gr...ht-kiwi-fruit/

Just because somebody in NZ thinks that they don't like it (I doubt it is illegal ...) - why should somebody in China care ... particularly if they legally bought the fruit they use to grow the plant?

[Joshuatree]

Diff culture for sure.Naive kiwis take the head nodding on ,IP and licensing to find they've been conned..Then there is the fake labelling of fruit. They just don't care.

[RTM]

I recall similar debate re A2M with respect to patents.....