sharetrader
Page 4 of 1608 FirstFirst 1234567814541045041004 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 16077
  1. #31
    Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sth Island. New Zealand.
    Posts
    6,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    UU, too black and white - in fact I applied for my own R&D tax credit and it took me ages. It would have been a bit easier in future. I received a few thousand dollars (15% of my actual costs), one of just 300 applications. Another business I knew was audited, two bods flew in. They passed. Don't believe all you read, yes, the official line from National was that it would be rorted. Crap, utter lies. It was just a great policy, they couldn't admit it.

    I'm still getting patents sealed from that work in 2009, I intend to have a lot more control over my business in future. If a lot more businesses did that after a small incentive, maybe the country would get somewhere. Do you have a better policy for the 450,000 small businesses in NZ? I would like to hear it.
    Credit for wages paid, credit for rent paid, electricity, advertising, how abut a credit for accounting work? You name it. Each one is as valid as R+D credits. Most businesses accept that there are costs and overheads to meet, and do not expect special treatment. Your mates, the Labour party, in one of their rare bursts of sanity, got rid of most business subsidies in the 80s. Good on them for that.

  2. #32
    Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    CNI area NZ
    Posts
    5,958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Credit for wages paid, credit for rent paid, electricity, advertising, how abut a credit for accounting work? You name it. Each one is as valid as R+D credits. Most businesses accept that there are costs and overheads to meet, and do not expect special treatment. Your mates, the Labour party, in one of their rare bursts of sanity, got rid of most business subsidies in the 80s. Good on them for that.
    OK, here's how it works FP. The R&D work hours are totalled up from worksheets and the costs for that depend on which staff do the hours. Parts and external costs are brought in. Then the proportion of the hours spent on R&D compared to the whole business operation hours is used as a multiplier for the overhead costs. So if R&D uses up 20% of the firm's time, then you could claim 15% of 20% of the overheads, or 3% of the overheads. That's one big rort isn't it. Oh, and be ready for an audit on that calculation. This method is only acceptable if you have multiple projects where it would otherwise have been difficult to split out actual overhead costs. The formula was hidden deep inside one inch of printed documentation.

    R&D tax credits were meant to grab the attention of business owners. At 12.5% it would be a small but clever incentive to smarten up business in NZ. That's what we all need really.

  3. #33
    Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    CNI area NZ
    Posts
    5,958

  4. #34
    Senior Member upside_umop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    London, United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    UU, too black and white - in fact I applied for my own R&D tax credit and it took me ages. It would have been a bit easier in future. I received a few thousand dollars (15% of my actual costs), one of just 300 applications. Another business I knew was audited, two bods flew in. They passed. Don't believe all you read, yes, the official line from National was that it would be rorted. Crap, utter lies. It was just a great policy, they couldn't admit it.

    I'm still getting patents sealed from that work in 2009, I intend to have a lot more control over my business in future. If a lot more businesses did that after a small incentive, maybe the country would get somewhere. Do you have a better policy for the 450,000 small businesses in NZ? I would like to hear it.
    I work for a big four accounting firm. Other ideas? I guess ones that are well costed and target genuine business needing to take the money to take that 'next step' with the risk. If businesses were going to do it already (i.e. the project), I don't see any reason for a tax credit.

  5. #35
    Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sth Island. New Zealand.
    Posts
    6,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    OK, here's how it works FP. The R&D work hours are totalled up from worksheets and the costs for that depend on which staff do the hours. Parts and external costs are brought in. Then the proportion of the hours spent on R&D compared to the whole business operation hours is used as a multiplier for the overhead costs. So if R&D uses up 20% of the firm's time, then you could claim 15% of 20% of the overheads, or 3% of the overheads. That's one big rort isn't it. Oh, and be ready for an audit on that calculation. This method is only acceptable if you have multiple projects where it would otherwise have been difficult to split out actual overhead costs. The formula was hidden deep inside one inch of printed documentation.

    R&D tax credits were meant to grab the attention of business owners. At 12.5% it would be a small but clever incentive to smarten up business in NZ. That's what we all need really.
    It's got nothing to do with the calculation method. You're obviously interested because this is the area you dabble in. But it's unfsir to tax one business and hand that money to another business.

  6. #36
    Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    CNI area NZ
    Posts
    5,958

    Default

    UU: I think you will find the R&D tax credits were costing a lot more than that. $700m rings a bell. Plus, it wasn't as though this was hugely productive use of the money - accounting firms were just using projects that clients had on their books to qualify for the tax credits and take a big cut of it. It was aimless spending....
    I'm disappointed with your opinions, FP and UU. I did notice accountancy firms on the web saying the R&D tax credits were difficult to do, best leave it to them. Well, if you have a decent cashbook with plenty of categories, it's not that hard. And no-one understands the R&D projects more than the staff and supervisor or owner of the business. By the time we totalled up what we'd done in a year that fitted the criteria, we were pretty proud of the work. We in fact produced some research findings at a tiny cost, from a little business, that any CRI would have been proud of. Sometimes our outputs look better than a CRI produces with their 5-year million-dollar prototypes. And here's the thing FP, the spending on these projects wasn't just internal, we outworked and networked, employed an extra uni student or two, and gave them some work experience. The tax savings or incentives were well spread out.

    Everyone says that NZ's R&D spend is too low compared to our GDP, and the govt portion is only 50% of other countries' percentages. I can tell you that the most efficient use for R&D funds will be in small, fast-acting businesses with low overheads. These businesses won't be using UU's firm for any type of tax minimisation, and they'll be ready for an audit if it is called for. Maybe the small firms don't have big sales channels ready for the outputs, but they have every right to work towards that goal. They can licence their ideas, sell them outright, or spend the five-ten years it might take to get the thing going.
    Last edited by elZorro; 03-12-2011 at 08:34 PM.

  7. #37
    Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sth Island. New Zealand.
    Posts
    6,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    I'm disappointed with your opinions, FP and UU. I did notice accountancy firms on the web saying the R&D tax credits were difficult to do, best leave it to them. Well, if you have a decent cashbook with plenty of categories, it's not that hard. And no-one understands the R&D projects more than the staff and supervisor or owner of the business. By the time we totalled up what we'd done in a year that fitted the criteria, we were pretty proud of the work. We in fact produced some research findings at a tiny cost, from a little business, that any CRI would have been proud of. Sometimes our outputs look better than a CRI produces with their 5-year million-dollar prototypes. And here's the thing FP, the spending on these projects wasn't just internal, we outworked and networked, employed an extra uni student or two, and gave them some work experience. The tax savings or incentives were well spread out.

    Everyone says that NZ's R&D spend is too low compared to our GDP, and the govt portion is only 50% of other countries' percentages. I can tell you that the most efficient use for R&D funds will be in small, fast-acting businesses with low overheads. These businesses won't be using UU's firm for any type of tax minimisation, and they'll be ready for an audit if it is called for. Maybe the small firms don't have big sales channels ready for the outputs, but they have every right to work towards that goal. They can licence their ideas, sell them outright, or spend the five-ten years it might take to get the thing going.
    It's a little like the music incentives and NZ quotas etc. Those schemes have never produced a Beethoven or Beatles, just as no R+D scheme will ever produce a Henry Ford or Steve Jobs.

  8. #38
    Legend
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    CNI area NZ
    Posts
    5,958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    It's a little like the music incentives and NZ quotas etc. Those schemes have never produced a Beethoven or Beatles, just as no R+D scheme will ever produce a Henry Ford or Steve Jobs.
    So we shouldn't try at all? 450,000 small businesses each taking on a person for 20 hours on average would remove the dole queue. I watched The Nation and Q&A this morning. In a roundabout way just about everyone mentioned that to get us out of the mess we're heading for, we'll need better exports, smarter businesses. The person who conveyed that most clearly was David Shearer.

    I have a question for UU: with all those businesses going past your view each year, surely some of them show the gem of an idea for the way forward, or are they really at your firm solely to minimise tax?

  9. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Christchurch, , France.
    Posts
    1,247

    Default

    Time to put this thread permanently to bed :-)

    National won.

  10. #40
    Legend
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Sth Island. New Zealand.
    Posts
    6,428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Major von Tempsky View Post
    Time to put this thread permanently to bed :-)

    National won.
    Or keep it going till 2014 so elzorro can tell us about R+D for 3 years non-stop.

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •