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  1. #12436
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    Or whoever will let him be P.M. And Labour/greens would just about have to, given that neither of their leaders is P.M material. Winnie would be in like a robber's dog if he could get P.M role. I wouldn't discount it.
    Fair enough - having the PM title would be a strong motivator for Winston First. Still struggle to see how Labour / Green and NZF would agree on a program other than sit on the government's benches - and would have hoped that at least the Greenies pretend to still have some principles, but you might be right ... better make sure National / ACT / United / Maori Party get enough votes to keep the ship steady.

    On the other hand - if we really would get a Labour / Green / NZF government we might be able to claim America's place as laughing stock of the world. This must count for something, doesn't it?

    BTW - anybody taking note of the amazing election results in France? A liberal president gains absolute majority in parliament and marginalises conservatives, lefties as well as populists . Liberalism is the future - that's the way to go!
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  2. #12437
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    Fair enough - having the PM title would be a strong motivator for Winston First. Still struggle to see how Labour / Green and NZF would agree on a program other than sit on the government's benches - and would have hoped that at least the Greenies pretend to still have some principles, but you might be right ... better make sure National / ACT / United / Maori Party get enough votes to keep the ship steady.
    I'm sure I am right. Winston first will not coalesce with L/G with Little as PM and Shaw or Turei as deputy P.M. in a million years; although he'll go through the motions to frighten National and up his pile of bargaining chips . Make him top dog and everything else will fly out the window in his rush to say yes.
    I agree with your advice, and may vote Act or Maori party if polling looks like an extra vote might boost their numbers in parliament. Otherwise I'll vote National with my party vote. Electorate vote doesn't count in my electorate. It's solid Labour, always has been, and yet the party vote went heavily for National in the last election.
    Last edited by fungus pudding; 19-06-2017 at 03:59 PM.

  3. #12438
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    Bill needs to sack Todd ....now
    "When investors are euphoric, they are incapable of recognizing euphoria itself"

  4. #12439
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Bill needs to sack Todd ....now
    Bill needs to sack Bill also - he said he didn't know about it but clearly did at the time.
    And how about using the leaders fund (wasn't Bill at the time but National) as hush money - bad, very bad.

  5. #12440
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    Quote Originally Posted by dobby41 View Post
    Bill needs to sack Bill also - he said he didn't know about it but clearly did at the time.
    And how about using the leaders fund (wasn't Bill at the time but National) as hush money - bad, very bad.
    and now Bill can't recall things .... yeah right
    "When investors are euphoric, they are incapable of recognizing euphoria itself"

  6. #12441
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    All a load of rubbish that won't affect Nationals ability to win the next election. The vast majority of voters are contented in jobs and homes with plenty of food on the table and that's all that matters.

  7. #12442
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    Quote Originally Posted by craic View Post
    All a load of rubbish that won't affect Nationals ability to win the next election. The vast majority of voters are contented in jobs and homes with plenty of food on the table and that's all that matters.
    Absolutely. There is no need for MPs to be held to account, they are just employees are they?. In fact, they have all collectively managed to not sign up to any house rules and regulations on their behaviour when in this most high office. The parties have some kind of rules, but there is no law about all this, except common law.

    In this case, there is a case to answer, and then there are the lies about what was done. Todd lied to Parliament. Even Bill English isn't without fault. Oh dear. Could be messy.

    Bill's statement to the Police.

    More disturbing news about National, they have done very well on the big donations front.

    https://thestandard.org.nz/party-donations-analysis/

    There's no such thing as a free lunch.
    Last edited by elZorro; 20-06-2017 at 06:48 PM.

  8. #12443
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Bill needs to sack Todd ....now
    Agreed. Hes been stupid

  9. #12444
    Ignorant. Just ignorant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Agreed. Hes been stupid
    One-off stupidity you can understand, but this seems to have gone on over quite a period of time.

    To be parachuted into an electorate, then fall out with your experienced electorate staff in such a dramatic manner seems to be the height of folly.

    There seem to have been a few of these over the past few years. Perhaps the National Party needs to review their candidate selection criteria and process.

    So much fuss, and so public, and so close to an election. The Donors will not be happy.

  10. #12445
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTM 3442 View Post
    One-off stupidity you can understand, but this seems to have gone on over quite a period of time.

    To be parachuted into an electorate, then fall out with your experienced electorate staff in such a dramatic manner seems to be the height of folly.

    There seem to have been a few of these over the past few years. Perhaps the National Party needs to review their candidate selection criteria and process.

    So much fuss, and so public, and so close to an election. The Donors will not be happy.
    Here are more details about how the situation unfolded.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/06/1...ice-the-payout

    So Bill never endorsed Todd Barclay in the first place. Problems started soon after Barclay arrived as the MP, and he's been dodging the work ever since.

    We've all met someone like this, they get a plum job because they're great with the BS, they otherwise aren't even good at the job, don't even want to extend themselves. This guy Todd Barclay doesn't deserve to be an MP, but from what I know, he's not the only National MP who gives lip service to the public, but in private thinks he's on another level where he shouldn't have to deal with this.

    So he's lied, been very economical with the truth in other areas, avoided talking to the police, and the police didn't go and get him for questioning. What he did was illegal. Plus he's obviously a useless MP.

    And worse, here's the National Party hoping to keep him as an MP until the election. They think the public won't worry about it within a week or so. It'll all blow over.

  11. #12446
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    Quote Originally Posted by craic View Post
    All a load of rubbish that won't affect Nationals ability to win the next election. The vast majority of voters are contented in jobs and homes with plenty of food on the table and that's all that matters.
    I suppose honesty and integrity is too much to expect from the leader.
    They say that the culture comes from the top.

    JK could lie and smile at the same time - Bill can't.

  12. #12447
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    And worse, here's the National Party hoping to keep him as an MP until the election. They think the public won't worry about it within a week or so. It'll all blow over.
    And worse he's dragged the PM into it.
    Though to be fair Bill dragged himself into it when he lied about what he knew and when he knew it.
    We done the investigation team for dragging the truth out.

    As for the police - seems they drop this because the MP wouldn't cooperate but have no problems serving warrants on the media when the PM was recorded.
    Seems there are different standards that apply?

  13. #12448
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    They think the public won't worry about it within a week or so. It'll all blow over.
    It will, its a beltway issue. Most people do not even know what the fuss is all about.

  14. #12449
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    Here are more details about how the situation unfolded.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/06/1...ice-the-payout

    So Bill never endorsed Todd Barclay in the first place. Problems started soon after Barclay arrived as the MP, and he's been dodging the work ever since.

    We've all met someone like this, they get a plum job because they're great with the BS, they otherwise aren't even good at the job, don't even want to extend themselves. This guy Todd Barclay doesn't deserve to be an MP, but from what I know, he's not the only National MP who gives lip service to the public, but in private thinks he's on another level where he shouldn't have to deal with this.

    So he's lied, been very economical with the truth in other areas, avoided talking to the police, and the police didn't go and get him for questioning. What he did was illegal. Plus he's obviously a useless MP.

    And worse, here's the National Party hoping to keep him as an MP until the election. They think the public won't worry about it within a week or so. It'll all blow over.
    I think the National party will be hoping he stands down. They can't sack him, although I think the local committee can revoke his selection for the coming election. He would have made an excellent Labour selection.

  15. #12450
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    I think the National party will be hoping he stands down. They can't sack him, although I think the local committee can revoke his selection for the coming election. He would have made an excellent Labour selection.
    National's backbencher Chris was made to look a fool on TV this morning, when grilled over the issue. Jack seemed to be enjoying himself. I get the feeling he might not be a National voter. Smart guy, Jack.

    A little bit of inside news: it sounds like Bill English had a friend of his set up for the candidacy, but the night before the candidates for Clutha-Southland were to be grilled, the friend pulled out because his wife wouldn't allow him to take on the job anyway. This left the way wide open for Todd Barclay, it would appear he wasn't the first choice after all.

    Now there's talk of infighting in the National Party ranks, on TV. Sacrilege!

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