If National wins ...

[artemis]

Where will the builders, plumbers, roofers, scaffolders, plasterers, carpet layers, electricians, excavators, inspectors, drain layers, painters, paper hangers, landscapers come from to support this vision/dream?

Training takes years, importing skills hasn't worked, and won't work because wages in NZ are lower than other countries who are trying to encourage the same trades to work in their country

The taxpayer has no business getting involved with building houses, period. Let alone with no reward for the risk (dodgy builders, substandard materials, ghetto creation etc) .......

Before there is a need for tradies there must be developers. And their bankers. For the life of me I cannot see why developers would commit to building such a huge number of so-called affordable homes, unless they are being heavily subsidised to do so. Why would they wear the risk unless there is decent reward. Think of the developers that went belly up in the GFC. And prices dropping in Christchurch and levelling off elsewhere as supply comes onstream. And immigration also dropping under some party policies.

Developers are better off putting their resources where the reward is, or scaling down.

[Bjauck]

Labour statistics show better employment prospects outside Auckland. Skype allows me to stay in close contact with people on the otherside of the world

Having to move city just to be able to buy house sounds like the mark of a failing society. Granny can babysit via skype?

Has been the situation for several generations now. ...

Really? So a sleeping pod will be a desirable residence eventually? I thought the average dwelling size had been increasing at one stage.

But foreign ownership has been shown to have almost zero bearing.

Have you got any references or links to independent studies on that? Why do many other countries have controls? NZ has not bothered collecting much of the information needed until recently.

Tenancy laws are just fine where they are now

if they do, then the Kiwi dream of being owner-occupiers will remain, and for many this is increasinlgy unachievable, and renting for many will be a poor insecure substitute.

[xafalcon]

Before there is a need for tradies there must be developers. And their bankers. For the life of me I cannot see why developers would commit to building such a huge number of so-called affordable homes, unless they are being heavily subsidised to do so. Why would they wear the risk unless there is decent reward. Think of the developers that went belly up in the GFC. And prices dropping in Christchurch and levelling off elsewhere as supply comes onstream. And immigration also dropping under some party policies.

Developers are better off putting their resources where the reward is, or scaling down.

My understanding was that Labour if elected would be underwriting, called their KiwiBuild policy. Would probably require a new government department to be created that coordinates developers, landowners, buyers, local body councils etc

But I'm only guessing, there isn't much detail available publicly to explain how it will work

But I know labour constraints are real and limiting building rates already, let alone with a 33% increase in annual builds

[fungus pudding]

Agree with high income, but we aren't there yet and won't be for years.

And we never will be without matching inflation. Although 'low wage economy' has become a bit of a mantra, how true is it? We're certainly better off than many countries I've been to. Have a look at U.S.A incomes for a start.

[xafalcon]

Having to move city just to be able to buy house sounds like the mark of a failing society. Granny can babysit via skype?

No, it's choosing to move city to buy a house (or choosing to stay in Auckland (for example) and delay/forego the house purchase). Has nothing to do with a failing society

Having a baby is a personal responsibility. Enter when ready. It's another trade-off, one that we personally made many years ago. Having children when we could afford it and give them the environment they deserved. We made many sacrifices, no restaurant meals, living in a cheap (cold) farm cottage, two jobs, home made lunches, no lattes, spending holidays working another job etc. Nobody said home ownership was going to be easy

Really? So a sleeping pod will be a desirable residence eventually? I thought the average dwelling size had been increasing at one stage.

Everyone has their own definition of desirability. Owning a sleeping pod may be preferential to sharing a rental for a single young person. Personal choice

I had also heard the same about increasing dwelling size. But I fail to see any relevance to this discussion - your point was the younger generation was paying more money for less house, not more house

Have you got any references or links to independent studies on that? Why do many other countries have controls? NZ has not bothered collecting much of the information needed until recently.

Try MBIE, they published something 6 months or so ago

Xenophobia, something I hope NZ does not get involved with. And it doesn't seem to work in Aussie, Sydney and Melbourne similarly unaffordable to Auckland

if they do, then the Kiwi dream of being owner-occupiers will remain, and for many this is increasinlgy unachievable, and renting for many will be a poor insecure substitute.

When we rented we never felt insecure. My tenants have never felt insecure, except for those boys that stopped paying rent and damaged my house.

The landlord - tenant relationship is 2 way. Respect from both sides leads to a mutually beneficial relationship. I used to get Christmas cards from one of my long term tenants I mentioned above. I watched as the student who first rented my house had a partner move in, got married, had 2 children, and added a dog and a cat. They asked if they could customize the house which I supported if done tastefully (which it was). Everybody wins

Don't believe all the media hype about bad landlords. Most are very good, and simply want a retirement nest egg

[xafalcon]

And we never will be without matching inflation. Although 'low wage economy' has become a bit of a mantra, how true is it? We're certainly better off than many countries I've been to. Have a look at U.S.A incomes for a start.

The relationship between inflation and increasing income may (or may not) be another broken pre-GFC economic model

I can see the situation of reducing net immigration (NZ-Aus relative economic strength moving back in Aus favour) and a NZ population remaining unwilling to accept price increases, leading to increased wages without significant non-tradable inflation increase, and tradable inflation is showing zero signs of increasing

Then there are the equal-pay settlements than will permeate the job market. Those are meaningful increases

But yes, I totally agree, NZ is better than most of the rest of the world in so many ways. I feel very lucky to be a kiwi

[BlackPeter]

And we never will be without matching inflation. Although 'low wage economy' has become a bit of a mantra, how true is it? We're certainly better off than many countries I've been to. Have a look at U.S.A incomes for a start.

Agree with that. I remember that we hired (must be now 10 years ago) highly skilled people from Germany - and our (NZ) company paid them a better salary than what they got in the same job previously back in Germany.

We are not a low wage country anymore - it is only our productivity which still fits in many sectors better to the "low wage" category.

Time for the unions and for Labour to stop telling porkies ...

[Bjauck]

No, it's choosing to move city to buy a house (or choosing to stay in Auckland (for example) and delay/forego the house purchase). Has nothing to do with a failing society

If you want a secure home in a stable environment for your family in your home city, where your good job and family are, and the only option is to rent, subject to the current NZ tenancy laws, and risk a lottery of an eviction despite being a good tenant, that is the mark of a failing society imo.

...Nobody said home ownership was going to be easy

Of course not. Nobody said it was going to get more and more difficult either.

I had also heard the same about increasing dwelling size. But I fail to see any relevance to this discussion - your point was the younger generation was paying more money for less house, not more house

I thought you had said that dwelling sizes had been getting smaller for successive generations. Apologies if I misunderstood your point.

Xenophobia, something I hope NZ does not get involved with. And it doesn't seem to work in Aussie, Sydney and Melbourne similarly unaffordable to Auckland

I disagree. There is a difference in ensuring that your own residents and citizens have preferential access to housing in their own country and the hatred of foreigners. However being outpriced in the housing market and ending up as tenants to absentee foreign landlords could give rise to resentment.

Don't believe all the media hype about bad landlords. Most are very good, and simply want a retirement nest egg

True, but even good landlords can evict good tenants? It is a pity that the NZ system has resulted in so little of the NZ household nest egg in financial investments such as pension funds, stocks and shares.

[westerly]

And we never will be without matching inflation. Although 'low wage economy' has become a bit of a mantra, how true is it? We're certainly better off than many countries I've been to. Have a look at U.S.A incomes for a start.

Have a look at OECD data and you might change your mind

westerly

[blackcap]

Have a look at OECD data and you might change your mind

westerly

We have one of the highest minimum wages in the world.