If National wins ...

[craic]

The truth, based on your last post is that he is a winner and you are a loser. You can't make it in manufacturing because you can't produce a product that people want to buy at a price they are willing to pay. And you are scared of the sharemarket because YOU made a mistake with whatever Glass Earth was. If that is the kid of thinking that is the Labour party, then I am happy to see them in back paddock.

[elZorro]

The truth, based on your last post is that he is a winner and you are a loser. You can't make it in manufacturing because you can't produce a product that people want to buy at a price they are willing to pay. And you are scared of the sharemarket because YOU made a mistake with whatever Glass Earth was. If that is the kid of thinking that is the Labour party, then I am happy to see them in back paddock.

I think you're too keen on making stuff up as well, Craic. What has my situation (which a few years back was extremely good, thanks - I paid a lot of taxes) got to do with the Labour Party? I just happen to vote for them, and I help out in a local electorate. You're straying so far off the thread it's not funny.

What do you think about John Key's fabrications? Is it proper for a PM? Should he be booted out for lying?

[elZorro]

Found this interesting chart. Has NZ GDP per capita over the years broken down into 'tradables' which in this case is the Primary Industries (agriculture, forestry and fishing) and Manufacturing sectors. All other industry sectors are in Rest

Seems primary industries and manufacturing were in the decline before Nats took over ... and hasn't been doing too badly over the last few years

W69, are you reading the same graph as me? In about 2008, primary industries manufacturing took a steep dive and didn't start pulling back up until 2013-2014, probably helped by a higher milk payout. Even now, it hasn't reached the level it was at when Labour were in power. Yet National is supposedly the friend of the farmer and anyone in the primary sector! I don't happen to be in that area of manufacturing, but some of our output gets used there. We also export.

That graph does imply that anyone stuck in the primary manufacturing sector with all of their capital, has been doing worse than in other areas of the economy. No wonder everyone's piled into the housing/commercial sector, but does it mean that National presided over an unbalanced economy for the last seven years, and did they do much to correct it?

[winner69]

W69, are you reading the same graph as me? In about 2008, primary industries manufacturing took a steep dive and didn't start pulling back up until 2013-2014, probably helped by a higher milk payout. Even now, it hasn't reached the level it was at when Labour were in power. Yet National is supposedly the friend of the farmer and anyone in the primary sector! I don't happen to be in that area of manufacturing, but some of our output gets used there. We also export.

That graph does imply that anyone stuck in the primary manufacturing sector with all of their capital, has been doing worse than in other areas of the economy. No wonder everyone's piled into the housing/commercial sector, but does it mean that National presided over an unbalanced economy for the last seven years, and did they do much to correct it?

I was seeing the decline starting in 2003 and that recent years have been the most positive since

[jonu]

What do you think about John Key's fabrications? Is it proper for a PM? Should he be booted out for lying?

Details please El Z? Fabrications...Lies! You have jumped from baseless innuendo to some pretty serious accusations now. Is it just because the man won't present you with his tax return, which last time I looked in our democracy, was his right.

[elZorro]

Details please El Z? Fabrications...Lies! You have jumped from baseless innuendo to some pretty serious accusations now. Is it just because the man won't present you with his tax return, which last time I looked in our democracy, was his right.

Jonu, you could try linking up the dots. Andrew Little has called JK's bluff, and JK backed out of the situation with a typical smart-arsed comment in the House. He didn't answer the question though. He's a very slippery eel. Quite a few members of the press seem to have figured all this out, though. They'll wait for their chance.

[jonu]

Jonu, you could try linking up the dots. Andrew Little has called JK's bluff, and JK backed out of the situation with a typical smart-arsed comment in the House. He didn't answer the question though. He's a very slippery eel. Quite a few members of the press seem to have figured all this out, though. They'll wait for their chance.

If that's all you've got El Z I would be apologising and retracting real quick if I were you. None of that equates to fabrications and lies. Slander is a very expensive mistake to make.

[elZorro]

If that's all you've got El Z I would be apologising and retracting real quick if I were you. None of that equates to fabrications and lies. Slander is a very expensive mistake to make.

John Key told all of us very recently that the foreign trust settings were unchanged from when Labour was in power. One of the settings relates to the tax rate levied. John Key made sure that rate was dropped from 28% (sensible) to 0% in September 2011. It was rammed through despite opposition from Labour, NZ First, the Greens. They just didn't have the numbers to stop it. Did John think no-one would bother to look back at the record? That's the precise time when we started to become a tax haven. John Key did it.

[jonu]

John Key told all of us very recently that the foreign trust settings were unchanged from when Labour was in power. One of the settings relates to the tax rate levied. John Key made sure that rate was dropped from 28% (sensible) to 0% in September 2011. It was rammed through despite opposition from Labour, NZ First, the Greens. They just didn't have the numbers to stop it. Did John think no-one would bother to look back at the record? That's the precise time when we started to become a tax haven. John Key did it.

Still no fabrication or lies. Also Key was saying that the necessary questions weren't asked under Labour either. This is what hasn't changed. Are you saying taxing dodgy money from overseas suddenly makes it OK?

El Z your obvious frustration at Labour's inability to get any traction against Key shouldn't result in you making baseless claims in this forum.

[elZorro]

Still no fabrication or lies. Also Key was saying that the necessary questions weren't asked under Labour either. This is what hasn't changed. Are you saying taxing dodgy money from overseas suddenly makes it OK?

El Z your obvious frustration at Labour's inability to get any traction against Key shouldn't result in you making baseless claims in this forum.

Read this link carefully. Foreign investors can set up a trust in NZ, invest in a fund run from NZ that in turn invests only in foreign assets or financial instruments, but after JK's 'new tax rate', they'll pay no tax on that income. NZers who invested in the same fund, will have to pay tax at the PIE rate (28%). The extra advantage that hasn't changed I guess, is that foreign investors don't necessarily get their trust details bandied about, unless they are unlucky enough to be resident in a country we have a tax treaty with, and someone asks IRD in the correct way. No treaty, no details are passed on, full stop. In which case they'll probably not document their trust if they think they can get away with it, or they'll invest somewhere else.

When the tax rate was 28%, there would have been hardly any takers for these PIE funds. Then came the JK difference (NO TAX) and suddenly the money came flooding in. The settings were OK when Labour set it up, because the fair tax rate discouraged that type of investor. Maybe the trust rules need looking at too, but it's the combination of the trust rules and the new zero tax rate that constitutes a haven.

Since a trustee for a foreign trust has to produce a utilities bill and a passport to prove they are resident in NZ, but then only needs to state that the settlor is foreign based, with no further details provided, what is to stop a NZ fraudster from setting themselves up in a foreign trust here? The massive advantage is that they can then effectively invest in one of these foreign equity PIE funds, and pay no tax on the returns. As soon as the tax rate for one side is 28%, the other 0%, the obvious is going to happen.