If National wins ...

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Iceman all tax cuts were not equal. The tax cut for some would be more than the total wage for others. But the GST increase was the same if notmore as a proportion of income. You only use the figures that support your own point of view.

[iceman]

Iceman all tax cuts were not equal. The tax cut for some would be more than the total wage for others. But the GST increase was the same if notmore as a proportion of income. You only use the figures that support your own point of view.

Of course not everyone got the same dollar amount in tax reductions. Yes the GST went up when income tax went down. A good idea. The fact remains that the average after tax income in NZ has grown rapidly during National's term. That is not my "point of view" but a very welcome fact ! I can;t understand why left wingers don't celebrate the average worker in NZ getting increased take home pay !

[Major von Tempsky]

Because left wingers are quite happy to see an overall smaller cake so that workers get a smaller slice (but equal!) and a lower standard of living.
Weird and illogical isn't it? But that's left wingers for you, cut off their noses to spite their face.

On a slightly different tack, allegedly we have 300,000 dedicated weirdo leftwingers who have signed a petition against selling 49% of Mighty River Power.
What happens when over 300,000 have put their names down to buy shares in Mighty River Power? muse muse...

And I bet some have signed in both places....

[POSSUM THE CAT]

Iceman the average worker got a small increase in take home pay YES but a much larger increase in GST expenditure that in effect his disposable income would by less than before the change. For most a 1.5 cent tax decrease in exchange for a 2.5cent GST increase

[iceman]

Iceman the average worker got a small increase in take home pay YES but a much larger increase in GST expenditure that in effect his disposable income would by less than before the change. For most a 1.5 cent tax decrease in exchange for a 2.5cent GST increase

You ignore pay increases during that period. The average after tax pay has gone up substantially for most workers in NZ. This is a fact and we should celebrate it.

MVT, in answer to your question, I guess most Greens supporters that signed the petition will not buy shares and continue their troglodyte lifestyle. The Labour supporters that signed will buy shares and possibly become very happy shareholders and National voters at the next election

[elZorro]

Since there are more PAYE people on the books? (Steven Joyce today), but less jobs or people employed, I assume contractors have given up their enterprises and are seeking employment. A lot of part-time jobs have disappeared, especially in retail. While the average take-home pay might have increased, it would be interesting to see what the median pay rate has done. That example I had the other day of a middle-aged, competent commerical painter being paid $16.50 an hour on wages, how does that stack up?

I have signed up for an interest in MRP, mildly embarrassed that I was part of a 300,000 strong group. I see that if it behaves like Contact Energy, I'd lose half my dough. It's good and bad that a strong NZ interest is being shown, we're so clever at buying back what we already owned, with our tax-paid spare cash. I also signed the Labour referendum.

[Major von Tempsky]

Bit more bad news for you Labour boys - Labour in Western Australia has just been horribly thumped, swing of 6% to the sitting Liberal-National government, heh, heh, heh.

[elZorro]

Because left wingers are quite happy to see an overall smaller cake so that workers get a smaller slice (but equal!) and a lower standard of living.
Weird and illogical isn't it? But that's left wingers for you, cut off their noses to spite their face.

On a slightly different tack, allegedly we have 300,000 dedicated weirdo leftwingers who have signed a petition against selling 49% of Mighty River Power.
What happens when over 300,000 have put their names down to buy shares in Mighty River Power? muse muse...

And I bet some have signed in both places....

The total tax take since 2008 dropped back quite a lot, and is only now recovering. It's still well below where Labour left it in 2008. So National has managed to produce a smaller cake every year since they got into office. That's the reality, MVT.

Those of us who have signed both the call for a referendum and the MRP offer interest form, are probably more interested in seeing both sides of the argument, rather than being desperate to buy shares.

Labor in Aussie are at a different part of their electoral cycle I think. Hard to compare with NZ. I'm more interested in figuring out which party has performed better for the country in the last decade or so. No contest.

[Major von Tempsky]

Are at a different part of their electoral cycle? Ha! ha! ha! That's weasel words for you. I bet if an Aussie Labour politician came out with that the media would make a laughing stock of him/her.

Ok, so if National win the next election as the polls keep saying then surely that shows it's no contest that National have outperformed Labour over the last decade (9 yrs is close enough to a decade).

I mean you do believe in democracy don't you? Or aren't the voters allowed to settle it?

[elZorro]

Are at a different part of their electoral cycle? Ha! ha! ha! That's weasel words for you. I bet if an Aussie Labour politician came out with that the media would make a laughing stock of him/her.

Ok, so if National win the next election as the polls keep saying then surely that shows it's no contest that National have outperformed Labour over the last decade (9 yrs is close enough to a decade).

I mean you do believe in democracy don't you? Or aren't the voters allowed to settle it?

Not at all. It's well known that unless the party in power manages very badly, they'll get two and maybe three terms before NZ voters will want to swing a bit the other way. I don't agree with the statement that there's not much between the parties. They have different ways of doing things, and Labour is a bit more truthful about what they're up to.

So until towards the end of 2014, we'll be discussing how likely it is that National will cling on for a third term. It looks to me as though the press are starting to ask some very tricky questions of National, and they have a lot of messy loose ends at the moment. Take away the misguided perception that National are invincible for 2014, and you'd have to be a bit unhappy with how things are going so far this year, MVT.

Yes, the voters will decide. I said in 2011 that a lot more people were going to lose their jobs if National got back in. Unfortunately I was right about that.

I'm having trouble finding a simple Treasury chart on govt income over the last 15 years to prove my case, but this latest report shows that the improved tax take in the last 7 months was due mainly to the same income being earned by fewer higher paid workers, with some at the bottom end being chopped out of work altogether. Shareholders also paid a bit more tax from dividends etc.

http://www.treasury.govt.nz/governme...mths-jan13.pdf

I did find these two charts though. National has been able to create the biggest annual budget deficit ever seen in NZ, from the look of it. Just last year. It added a lot to our external borrowings.