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  1. #14541
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    Quote Originally Posted by fungus pudding View Post
    As predicted by Joyce, the teachers are about to start digging the hole; one thing that is known and Taxcinda and Robbersin haven't allowed for. And that's just the start of the public service demands.
    If anyone thinks that the public sector unions are going to be happy with inflation indexed pay increases under a Labour led government, I think they are probably a bit naive. Teachers, nurses, junior doctors, senior doctors, WINZ, ACC, IRD, DoC, everyone across the entire state services sector will be jostling for position to present their demands... everyone is going to want a drink at the well and that’s before the next rounds of pay equity cases to settle.

    And then we shall see just how many treaty settlements are resolved in this next term.

    Or what actually ends up actually finally going to welfare recipients at WINZ and on National Super... and whether we see the Laffer Curve in action...

  2. #14542
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    Jacinda was just on TV1 saying that, so far, 100% of the discussions with NZFirst have been about policies. That has to be pretty bad news for National's chances on forming a coalition.

    Colin James has a message for Grumpers.

    Colin James's Otago Daily Times column for 10 October 2017
    Grumping, policy trading and a trade crunch coming

    There has been much grumping that Winston Peters and New Zealand First, with a 7.2% vote, decide who leads the government. That's MMP.

    These grumpers, who tend to be beneficiaries of the current economic paradigm, brush off the two democratic votes for the MMP system, in two referendums in 1992-93 and one in 2011.

    They forget that in 1993, the last first-past-the-post election, Jim Bolger got only 50 of 99 seats and if he had been one seat down, as he was on election night, would have needed either Peters or Jim Anderton to govern. As it was, he had to filch Sir Peter Tapsell from Labour as Speaker.

    In June this year in first-past-the-post Britain Theresa May had to go grubbing to a populist Ulster party to scrape a majority. In Australia Malcolm Turnbull has a majority of one in the federal Parliament's lower house, elected under the preferential vote system, and is in a minority in the Senate, elected by single transferrable vote.

    So flipping to a different voting system could still leave grumpers grumping. In any case, National's 44%, while impressive after three terms, is not a majority. Moreover, if New Zealand First goes with Labour-plus-Greens this week, well-off grumpers might thank it for modifying some Labour-Green policies.

    Some grumpers -- and, with them, a National party which in the campaign concocted fabrications about Labour's fiscal hole and income tax plans -- also cynically pushed a National-Greens deal.

    Greens could not join a party that, to the frustration of some in National's own Bluegreens ginger group, has dawdled on climate change.

    So wary of big parties are some Green party members that they opposed signing up with friend Labour in March to fiscal parameters. National's Greens ploy seemed designed to pressure Peters.

    That is not to say there isn't work to do on MMP. The Electoral Commission report after the 2011 referendum recommended dropping the "waiver", which allows a party which wins an electorate seat to get a total of seats proportional to its party vote without crossing the 5% threshold. If that had been done the Maori party would have had one seat, not two, in the 2014-17 Parliament.

    To compensate for loss of the waiver, the commission wanted the 5% threshold cut to 4%, the figure the 1986 royal commission proposed. The Electoral Commission also wanted "overhangs" abolished so Parliament would always be just 120 seats.

    Judith Collins, as Justice Minister, binned the report. Correct democratic process would have been to get a bill drafted and leave Parliament to decide. National benefited from the waiver's boost to its tiddler support parties.

    The commission also recommended keeping the ratio of electorate seats to list seats to 72:48 to promote diversity and ensure proportionality. It is 71:49 now but as the population grows the number of electorate seats will rise under present rules.

    Keeping the number of electorates down adds a rural buffer to many provincial city seats, making them harder for Labour to win and keep a presence there through resident MPs -- to be "part of the communities" as Grant Robertson put it after the 2014 disaster.

    So Labour's new caucus has 29 list MPs and 17 electorate MPs. National has 41 electorate and 15 list MPs, so has more national presence.

    The good news for Labour from the final count is that it has its highest score since 41.1% in 2005. Moreover, another 4935 votes off National would have got Labour another seat off National. Labour is close to Helen Clark's 38.7% in 1999 when she first took office, with the Alliance -- in a minority government, supported from outside by the Greens.

    Clark built to 41.3% in 2002 by cannibalising the Alliance after it split. National also disintegrated, down to 20.9%. Labour can't cannibalise the Greens without sinking them. Much the same goes for New Zealand First. So Jacinda Ardern, whether in opposition or government, must eat into National's vote by building a real presence in middle New Zealand, notably in the provinces.

    She needs also to suss why turnout is so low in south Auckland and why Labour underperformed in west Auckland and figure out how to get people in those Labour "strongholds" enrolled, engaged and voting.

    Bill English's task is to work out how to pay the price of New Zealand First's support if Peters goes his way -- given the large holes in Steven Joyce's budget in hospital deficits and other funding shortfalls. Add that to the chronic political illnesses in housing, children in need, crime, drugs and much else which have worsened on his watch. If in opposition, whoever replaces English will also need to work out how to get on board the generational change train.

    That's the longer term. In three weeks trade talks hit a TPP crunch. The election gave a majority to three parties who reject TPP as it stands, which could be ground-shifting for New Zealand's international positioning.

    Grumpers: stand by.

    * Last week's column detached Sir Michael Cullen's knighthood.

    Colin James, (64)-21-438 434, PO Box 9494, Marion Square, Wellington 6141, New Zealand ColinJames@synapsis.co.nz, www.ColinJames.co.nz

    Last edited by elZorro; 10-10-2017 at 07:53 AM.

  3. #14543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    I have absolutely no doubt that national will suck up to winston. Hey they've thrown dead cats around have looked the nation in the eye and lied(remember that hole) and are unprincipled and desperate to stay in power because imo they are addicted to it, so whats a few rats swallowed; to them nothing. they will pull him in and do something dirty some time later to remove him.
    And are you saying Labour won't be sucking up to Winston? They will do anything to get into power.

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    With Winston saying he has no intention to talk to The Greens and does not expect Labour to tell him what they discuss with The Greens, how on earth will a Labour led Government be formed ? Winston said yesterday that there will be a major change in how Government is run which must mean he intends to be in Government and not on cross benches. He can not negotiate a stable and reliable Labour led Government without The Greens being at the table. Probably can;t with them at the table either but that's a different story. This is a complete farce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshuatree View Post
    I have absolutely no doubt that national will suck up to winston. Hey they've thrown dead cats around have looked the nation in the eye and lied(remember that hole) and are unprincipled and desperate to stay in power because imo they are addicted to it, so whats a few rats swallowed; to them nothing. they will pull him in and do something dirty some time later to remove him.
    This post tells a lot about its poster. JT - you should be ashamed of yourself. How much good do you think your vilification of the other political side will do? Your post is divisive, unhelpful, wrong and plainly stupid.

    Look at the sad situation in countries like Britain (BREXIT) and the US. In both cases it was people like you who thought that demonising the other side will bring them some cheap political gain but instead it did tear the country apart. Do you want this for NZ as well? Really?

    Time to grow up?
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

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    Wonder what MP Jian Yang will do if Nats are not the next government

    Suppose Labour has an equivalent person ......but the way Peters is talking if there is such a member in Labour's ranks he would be better off keeping a low profile.
    “ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    With Winston saying he has no intention to talk to The Greens and does not expect Labour to tell him what they discuss with The Greens, how on earth will a Labour led Government be formed ? ...... This is a complete farce.
    I do not understand that reporting at all. Labour + NZ First do not make more seats than National - end of story.

    For Labour to be in government there must be a negotiated agreement with the greens - and something more than supply and confidence. For a threesome to work everyone is going to have to take a turn at being on top and each needs to be a willing and active participant. Its not a threesome if you have a wallflower being a doormat watching on wondering "what if" - its during those moments thoughts of jealousy, revenge and attention seeking will pop up. Winston and James are going to have to drop their differences if they want to get it on with Jacinda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    I do not understand that reporting at all. Labour + NZ First do not make more seats than National - end of story.

    For Labour to be in government there must be a negotiated agreement with the greens - and something more than supply and confidence. For a threesome to work everyone is going to have to take a turn at being on top and each needs to be a willing and active participant. Its not a threesome if you have a wallflower being a doormat watching on wondering "what if" - its during those moments thoughts of jealousy, revenge and attention seeking will pop up. Winston and James are going to have to drop their differences if they want to get it on with Jacinda.
    Yes that's the way I see it too MM. Silly that The Greens are not at the table with Winston and Labour. That Chloe Swarbrick might be a good Deputy PM to PM Winnie :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Yes that's the way I see it too MM. Silly that The Greens are not at the table with Winston and Labour. That Chloe Swarbrick might be a good Deputy PM to PM Winnie :-)
    Maybe its Labour showing employers the way to negotiate - especially when it comes to National Awards (oops I mean Fair PAy Agreements). It seems we could have two large employers battling out what the Award can look like and they can leave the third party Union out in the dark.

    (Chloe as Winstons deputy PM would never work. She is far too earnest and I suspect one late night gin and tonic would be enough to topple her)

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    Quote Originally Posted by minimoke View Post
    Maybe its Labour showing employers the way to negotiate - especially when it comes to National Awards (oops I mean Fair PAy Agreements). It seems we could have two large employers battling out what the Award can look like and they can leave the third party Union out in the dark.

    (Chloe as Winstons deputy PM would never work. She is far too earnest and I suspect one late night gin and tonic would be enough to topple her)
    Yeah but practice might build up resistance. Nights at the Green parrot with Winston would be good training.

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