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  1. #15521
    Speedy Az winner69's Avatar
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    Doesn’t look like Erica is in the running to lead Nats

    Maybe she’ll take over just before the next election when Luxon is rolled
    “ At the top of every bubble, everyone is convinced it's not yet a bubble.”

  2. #15522
    always learning ... BlackPeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Doesn’t look like Erica is in the running to lead Nats

    Maybe she’ll take over just before the next election when Luxon is rolled
    You mean Luxon might be Nationals Little?

    No sure he has got what it takes ...

    Little is one of these hard working people, able to take command, shape the team but as well prepared to step back if its for the better of the team. Lots of transpiration but admittedly not too much shine. As well - Little had a lot of political experience.

    I don't think we can say the same things about Luxon. He comes across as self focussed, never had to work in a political environment - and seriously - could you see him stepping back for the good of the team?

    Reti might be Nationals Little, but I doubt they give him the chance to do his good work ...
    ----
    "Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" (Niels Bohr)

  3. #15523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    You would prefer NZ continue the path towards Apartheid South Africa.

    You seem to be unaware of the fact it was the previous National Govt which signed NZ up to the 'UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples', not Labour!
    This committed us to improving outcomes for Maori in areas such as health & housing where they are significant lower than the rest of the population.

    A quick look back, way back in 2007 when the UN Declaration was issued, PM at the time Helen Clark thought it wasn't compatible with NZ law and would cause all sorts of problems & declined to sign it.
    We were left in an awkward position after Australia, Canada & the US subsequently signed up to it leaving NZ as an outlier.

    Later in 2010, National under PM John Key, signed NZ up to the UN Declaration, saying NZ had always supported its ideals.

    In 2019 the Labour govt set up a working group to make a plan to improve outcomes for Maori as statistics showed Maori health & housing & education falling further & further behind the rest of the population.

    The report He Puapua (meaning the break) has many ideas & a wide range of proposals some controversial & unlikely to ever be achieved, others very mild.
    Significantly it says outcomes for indigenous peoples improve when they are a bit more in charge of their own destiny's & some of that comes down to giving them a seat around the board table & facilitate Maori participation in decision making.

    It's not govt policy, just a discussion paper & it may surprise you but Chris Luxon & many National MP's support it.
    No ones saying they agree with all of it but lifting Maori in areas like education, health & housing has to help all of us & make NZ a better country.

    You don't have to agree with it, but whatever you want to call it, partnership, separate development, co-management, or whatever, it's bordering on absurdity to label it as the South African system of Apartheid characterised by subjugation of the majority black population by the minority whites.

  4. #15524
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    Quote Originally Posted by winner69 View Post
    Doesn’t look like Erica is in the running to lead Nats

    Maybe she’ll take over just before the next election when Luxon is rolled
    Hehe.. the stability of conservative parties overseas leaves much to be desired.

    11 years of Tony blair compared to the blue team shambles.
    Last edited by Panda-NZ-; 30-11-2021 at 12:18 PM.

  5. #15525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Skies View Post
    You seem to be unaware of the fact it was the previous National Govt which signed NZ up to the 'UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples', not Labour!
    This committed us to improving outcomes for Maori in areas such as health & housing where they are significant lower than the rest of the population.

    A quick look back, way back in 2007 when the UN Declaration was issued, PM at the time Helen Clark thought it wasn't compatible with NZ law and would cause all sorts of problems & declined to sign it.
    We were left in an awkward position after Australia, Canada & the US subsequently signed up to it leaving NZ as an outlier.

    Later in 2010, National under PM John Key, signed NZ up to the UN Declaration, saying NZ had always supported its ideals.

    In 2019 the Labour govt set up a working group to make a plan to improve outcomes for Maori as statistics showed Maori health & housing & education falling further & further behind the rest of the population.

    The report He Puapua (meaning the break) has many ideas & a wide range of proposals some controversial & unlikely to ever be achieved, others very mild.
    Significantly it says outcomes for indigenous peoples improve when they are a bit more in charge of their own destiny's & some of that comes down to giving them a seat around the board table & facilitate Maori participation in decision making.

    It's not govt policy, just a discussion paper & it may surprise you but Chris Luxon & many National MP's support it.
    No ones saying they agree with all of it but lifting Maori in areas like education, health & housing has to help all of us & make NZ a better country.

    You don't have to agree with it, but whatever you want to call it, partnership, separate development, co-management, or whatever, it's bordering on absurdity to label it as the South African system of Apartheid characterised by subjugation of the majority black population by the minority whites.
    UN = United Nutters.

    Judith Collins on first trip to UN, Geneva, UN committee for elimination of racial discrimination.

    During the meeting she was asked questions by the committee along the lines of;
    "why does NZ not allow Maori to play sport? That would keep Maori out of jail"

    How does NZ deal with ethnic violence at football games?
    The questioner didn't believe her when she said its not an issue, and never has been.
    She dare not mention the term ALL Blacks, so instead had to ask them if they had heard of NZ world champion sports people who are Maori?
    NZ regularly appears at UN for reviews of this kind.

    Source: Judith Collins book, Pull no punches, well worth reading IMO.

    Move onto 2041, same committee.

    To the associate delegate from Aotearoa, Chloe Swarbrick.

    "why does NZ treat whiteys so badly, and what led to so many divisive policies being legislated against them"?
    Last edited by Getty; 30-11-2021 at 10:19 AM. Reason: add Aotearoa

  6. #15526
    Legend Balance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Skies View Post
    Y
    The report He Puapua (meaning the break) has many ideas & a wide range of proposals some controversial & unlikely to ever be achieved, others very mild.
    Significantly it says outcomes for indigenous peoples improve when they are a bit more in charge of their own destiny's & some of that comes down to giving them a seat around the board table & facilitate Maori participation in decision making.

    It's not govt policy, just a discussion paper & it may surprise you but Chris Luxon & many National MP's support it.
    No ones saying they agree with all of it but lifting Maori in areas like education, health & housing has to help all of us & make NZ a better country.

    You don't have to agree with it, but whatever you want to call it, partnership, separate development, co-management, or whatever, it's bordering on absurdity to label it as the South African system of Apartheid characterised by subjugation of the majority black population by the minority whites.
    Read this first :

    https://democracyproject.nz/2021/11/...f-david-lange/

    Then, we can have a meaningful discussion on whether this government is truly helping Maoris achieve desirable & positive outcomes for them & NZ.

  7. #15527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Skies View Post
    .... The report He Puapua (meaning the break) has many ideas & a wide range of proposals some controversial & unlikely to ever be achieved, others very mild. Significantly it says outcomes for indigenous peoples improve when they are a bit more in charge of their own destiny's & some of that comes down to giving them a seat around the board table & facilitate Maori participation in decision making.....
    Good chance I have more knowledge of the issues than many on this site. Because I worked for years in the specifically Maori sector, and then more in a sector with a lot of Maori clients, many low income. I whakapapa to one of the 7 canoes, am a Maori land owner.

    My extended family, and that is a lot of people, were very fortunate to have elders who valued education, hard work and thrift. The flow on effect from that set generations of my family up to succeed, many are professionals, none have been in prison, only one of my many cousins has been on a benefit for an extended period and used that time to train as a kindy teacher. Mind you, most of of the family now live away from the marae, many in Australia and are raising families there.

    The net of that is they live like everyone else, while retaining family links and the aspects of the culture they choose. And they are, in my opinion, the majority that do not appear anywhere in the bad stats.

  8. #15528
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackPeter View Post
    You mean Luxon might be Nationals Little?

    No sure he has got what it takes ...

    Neither is he. He hasn't been there long enough to even know what it takes.

  9. #15529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balance View Post
    Read this first :

    https://democracyproject.nz/2021/11/...f-david-lange/

    Then, we can have a meaningful discussion on whether this government is truly helping Maoris achieve desirable & positive outcomes for them & NZ.
    An article everyone should read.

    A difference I see between Lange and Adhern is that Lange did not see himself as a comrade.

    Comrades believe in revolution and destruction.

  10. #15530
    Legend Balance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Getty View Post
    An article everyone should read.

    A difference I see between Lange and Adhern is that Lange did not see himself as a comrade.

    Comrades believe in revolution and destruction.
    And she is power hungry and lusts after the idolisation which she gets from employing an army of spin doctors and staff.

    Lange told it as it was.

    And he was not clueless, had a conscience which ultimately cost him his job. A man of integrity.
    Last edited by Balance; 30-11-2021 at 12:46 PM.

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