If National wins ...

[POSSUM THE CAT]

elZorro of course Wikipedia would say that. Just because Wikipedia say that everything on it is accurate does not mean it is. Can you come up with a very reputable source that say everything or even 95% on Wikipedia is correct.

[elZorro]

Wow, that was enlightening.. I guess we have four right-leaning voters up against one left-wing liberal, and I should convert across. Just give me a lobotomy and I'll be right.

MVT, how's your 'History of NZ' book going? Or is it more like a comic book? Up here in the North Island there are opportunities to meet and work with a few more of the first indigenous tribe. That alone would inform you that stereotypes are always wrong, it's not that simple.

We still have a lot to learn from each others' culture yet.

Re some Maori on the dole Belgarion, there are a lot more Pakeha by numbers I'd think. Is the little bit of cash they get each week any worse than highly paid CRI scientists (amongst others) squandering hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars a year each, while producing very little of immediate use?

What we all need is a stronger, better economy that can employ a wide variety of staff.

[Major von Tempsky]

Jeez, you are good at taking some heroic leaps in the dark el Zorro.
Firstly I was born in the North Island and lived there for over 30 years and rubbed shoulders with lots of Maoris, in the Army, woolstore &. Secondly one of my sons-in-law is Maori (but he does enrol on the General Roll by preference). There's over a 100,000 Maori who do the same as him :-)
Any more great leaps of assumption you'd like to make?

[elZorro]

eZ, Hope you weren't including me in that list of four right-leaning voters
Lies, dam lies and statistics ... Honestly eZ, people will drive trucks through statements like that!
Key word there is employ ... i.e. work for money/remuneration

My apologies Belgarion, I remember you'd mentioned in another post your tendency to vote Labour. So that's two-all, L-R. You seem to take a tough line on ethnic matters though..to be polite.

Here's the stats, there are more NZ Europeans on the dole than Maori. Percentage wise, the stats don't look so good. Most of the blame for this can be laid at the feet of industry - not competing with globalism. Manufacturing jobs are disappearing.

http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/...unities_04.asp

What is the National govt doing about that? Sod all, because big business is now making super profits from a leaned-out workforce.

[POSSUM THE CAT]

elZorro I hope you are not classing this cat in those Right Wing Voters. Cats are not as stupid as Humans

[elZorro]

Yes I do. You can't have a society that has one set of rules for one race and another set of rules for another race. The South Africans tried that not only did it not work but just about every other race/country on the planet cried foul. I think it was called apartheid. ...

Sorry. Did I read you right? More maori are unemployed than european becuase manufacturing jobs are all that maori can do?

Belg, you can't poke fun at one ethnic group and then say there should be one set of rules for all, as it's obvious that the rules in that case, would advantage another group more. On the face of it, one law for all (with no special dispensations for a small number of cases) sounds fine, unless an ethnic minority sees the sort of red-neck attitudes that appear on the web, and in conversations around NZ. Sure, there is some basis in fact, but these attitudes cannot be allowed to represent the whole picture.

As a percentage, Maori might generally have lower educational achievements, but there are an awful lot of pakeha who don't achieve either, through the system. Even with NCEA being designed to help. Employers want to see student grades in external exams, but many schools allow their students to not bother with these, and concentrate on internal assessments.

Guess where the profits are made in many trades-type businesses? Ongoing manufacturing of profitable items with a decent markup, and downstream support of those goods. Long after the R&D has been done and capital has been spent, this is what should be keeping large manufacturing firms and their staff afloat. Manufacturing takes in a wide range of skills and educational backgrounds.

[elZorro]

elZorro I hope you are not classing this cat in those Right Wing Voters. Cats are not as stupid as Humans

Sorry about that PTC, I'm wrong again, happily.

[Anonymous]

elZorro Wikipedia when you go there how do you know it has not been edited in the last two minutes by some idiot with B.S.

I am not going to stick up for Wikipedia but just in case anyone is interested, on every page on Wikipedia you can click the 'View History' tab up the top right and see exactly what has been edited and when it was edited. It keeps a full record of every change. I think it becomes pretty evident very quickly if a page has been edited by some idiot with malicious intent.

[jmsnz]

Totally agree ... lets address these attitudes then ... but lets not implement a visceral racist system that codifies in laws the rights of one race over another and creates an entire industry that exploits these laws for their own gain.

I would also agree. It won't matter how many laws we create, they won't change the attitudes. It is those attitudes, from all parties that need to change.

As was commented previously, whilst not particularly offended with the various 'pakeha' labels, I consider myself and my wider family to be New Zealanders. Our roots are firmly planted in this country. I can't help thinking that if we changed the attitude of all to consider themselves as kiwis we would take a significant step forward.

I also think that we are quite hard on ourselves. We are a very young nation still exploring these issues. For all the rights, wrongs and inequalities that exist here we must surely all acknowledge that we have managed a level of integration and understanding that many haven't got close to. Just go to 'modern' South Africa to see that.

(And for elZorro - 2 posts in 2 weeks is a record for me!!)

[Major von Tempsky]

Having worked in Statistics NZ at one stage, I can tell you there were enough bitter complaints about "Pakeha" for it to be dropped as a label in surveys :-)