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  1. #16
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    No need to emigrate :-). 48 + 1.1 + 0.7 + 2.8 = 52.6.

    Loved the observation that most emigrants to Australia vote Labour which is why the polls in NZ swung to National :-).

  2. #17
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    OK Major, a great result if you're already set up and prosperous. The top few percent will be happy with this outcome. The rest followed the media and may not have bothered to look hard at the policies. The left voting block was still large, and where National doesn't have many coalition supporters anymore, Labour does. It'll only take a couple of byelections to possibly change things a lot.

    I'll be watching for: a release of the tea party recording (which, if it had come out earlier, might have changed the election), confirmation of a zero police intake this year, moves to use the asset sales as a contra for Iwi relativity clauses coming due next year, and sundry benefit bashing and public sector sinking caps. National's message is: the tax take is down (that's their policy, it worked), we can't afford to take a punt with anything anymore.

  3. #18
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    The tea party recording has already been substantively released by Winston Peters so you are flogging a dead horse, the election's over mate. You lost. Remember? It won't get released.

    Reminds me of a famous pack media scrum interview of a witty personality in NZ a few years ago.

    Baying media: Answer the question! Answer the question!

    Witty Personality: I'm not going to answer it because it's a hypothetical question.

    Baying media: In what sense is it hypothetical?

    WP: In the sense that I'm not going to answer it. (stalks off smiling).

    Leaving all the bystanders and even some of the media laughing.

    As for the police intake non-issue - keep up with the news mate, keep up with the news. It's a police decision and they've said the first of the 4 yearly intakes has been cancelled but not the next 3.

    Next non-issue? You put 'em up and I'll bat 'em down.

  4. #19
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    Er, you answered two Major, not the next three, which are the really big ones. Look also for a bigger jobless queue, that won't help any of us.

  5. #20
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    stability is good for the market, sure...
    but asset sales will draw out any surplus liquidity and keep a lid on the markets overall?
    For clarity, nothing I say is advice....

  6. #21
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    Ok, next three.
    "moves to use the asset sales as a contra for Iwi relativity clauses coming due next year, and sundry benefit bashing and public sector sinking caps. National's message is: the tax take is down (that's their policy, it worked), we can't afford to take a punt with anything anymore. "

    Hmm, I see some observers/iwi bods are suggesting they might be in favour of asset sales if the Iwi could get preferential terms (lower prices to Iwi? extra Waitangi settlements in asset sales?). That is a corrupt approach and I think Iwi should only get the same terms as Mums and Dads (incl me :-)).

    Public sector sinking caps - actually I worked in the public sector for many years and I totally agree that public sector sinking lids are needed.
    I observed at first hand how petty bureaucrats built straw go slow empires and told continuing lies to sustain and expand them. I also noted the vast expansion of policy wonks, thousands upon thousands in Labours 9 years. Any graduate in something completely impractical like sociology, anthropology, political science could (and did) get a job in a NZ public dept doing "policy research". Reading overseas material and rewriting it with an NZ flavour. The world was their oyster.

    Sundry benefit bashing. I think everyone noticed how there was a huge move, scores of thousands, from the unemployment benefit to the sickness benefit over Labour's 9 years. These cases need to be honestly investigated and at least some reinstated on unemployment benefit. Solo mums who make a career out of serially having babies of unknown parentage to avoid working obviously need to be cracked down hard on. Otherwise I personally don't think young mums should be forced out to work unless there is congenial part time employment available and decent child care.

  7. #22
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    MVT Where are all the jobs for these people coming from unless we reintroduce import restrictions & cut immigration. The same as it would have been been better sense to pay a little bit more for the new electric trains & less on the unemployment benefit.
    Possum The Cat

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by peat View Post
    stability is good for the market, sure...
    but asset sales will draw out any surplus liquidity and keep a lid on the markets overall?
    I doubt that would have anything more than a short term effect. By the time ACC, Cullen fund and the Kiwsaver schemes have taken a slice, I doubt that the pvt. money will amount to much anyway. And if the Maori party are any good at negotiating they'll end up with a bigger chunk than the 10 % restriction. Three seats = bargaining power.

  9. #24
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    There's no such thing as a "plan to reduce unemployment" or "green jobs".

    Green jobs are made by taxing productive enterprises in order to employ inspectors and bureaucrats to enforce petty rules such as no woodburners allowed older than 15 years regardless of whether they are still going well.

    The tax is a drag on the economy and the green jobs are unproductive.

    Obama has been attacked in the US for not having "a plan to reduce unemployment" and similarly some Brit migrant here, unqualified in economics attacked Key in the same way.

    The only way to stimulate jobs is by stimulating the economy so that productive enterprises want more employees.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major von Tempsky View Post
    There's no such thing as a "plan to reduce unemployment" or "green jobs".

    Green jobs are made by taxing productive enterprises in order to employ inspectors and bureaucrats to enforce petty rules such as no woodburners allowed older than 15 years regardless of whether they are still going well.

    The tax is a drag on the economy and the green jobs are unproductive.

    Obama has been attacked in the US for not having "a plan to reduce unemployment" and similarly some Brit migrant here, unqualified in economics attacked Key in the same way.

    The only way to stimulate jobs is by stimulating the economy so that productive enterprises want more employees.
    Yes Major, I agree with the last line. If that is National's intention, then at the start of their first term they basically told the 450,000 small businesses that they were brainless and incapable of producing new and innovative goods and services. The R&D tax credits for example were summarily canned (saving a massive $30mill p.a. when the net benefit could have been far higher) and they gave the grants to just a few big businesses and CRIs.

    That must go down in history as one of the dumbest policies ever, and it was just to spite Labour. There is no other sensible reason for it. So now we have to look to the bumbling CRIs and the automated big businesses (that readily sell out their manufacturing overseas), to come to our rescue. That won't happen, and meanwhile 450,000 small employers don't have an incentive to get in there and help solve the problem. We can employ school leavers to sweep the floor at a reduced rate, thanks National.

  11. #26
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    The Soviet Union job creation didn't work Belge.

    Vast underemployment and totally uncompetitive with other countries.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Halebop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Major von Tempsky View Post
    The Soviet Union job creation didn't work Belge.

    Vast underemployment and totally uncompetitive with other countries.
    ...and China?

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halebop View Post
    ...and China?
    Good one Halebop. Our work email is deluged with offers from China to do some of our work for us, recently we even had an employee of a Chinese supplier we are using, try to poach our custom for his own business he was setting up. Raw capitalism, but with a huge energy.

    We don't get much at all in the way of contact from USA, Europe, even Australia.

    Recent example: 3m x 0.8m street banners in colour for NZ$109, sent over from China. These feature words and logos hand stitched onto a dyed colour banner, to copy your artwork as close as possible. That'll keep quite a few people occupied.

    I think the lesson is: don't set up business in NZ doing nothing but banners, it's a cut-throat area. Try something with a bit more edge to it.
    Last edited by elZorro; 29-11-2011 at 07:38 PM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by elZorro View Post
    Yes Major, I agree with the last line. If that is National's intention, then at the start of their first term they basically told the 450,000 small businesses that they were brainless and incapable of producing new and innovative goods and services. The R&D tax credits for example were summarily canned (saving a massive $30mill p.a. when the net benefit could have been far higher) and they gave the grants to just a few big businesses and CRIs.

    That must go down in history as one of the dumbest policies ever, and it was just to spite Labour. There is no other sensible reason for it. So now we have to look to the bumbling CRIs and the automated big businesses (that readily sell out their manufacturing overseas), to come to our rescue. That won't happen, and meanwhile 450,000 small employers don't have an incentive to get in there and help solve the problem. We can employ school leavers to sweep the floor at a reduced rate, thanks National.
    I think you will find the R&D tax credits were costing a lot more than that. $700m rings a bell. Plus, it wasn't as though this was hugely productive use of the money - accounting firms were just using projects that clients had on their books to qualify for the tax credits and take a big cut of it. It was aimless spending....

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by upside_umop View Post
    I think you will find the R&D tax credits were costing a lot more than that. $700m rings a bell. Plus, it wasn't as though this was hugely productive use of the money - accounting firms were just using projects that clients had on their books to qualify for the tax credits and take a big cut of it. It was aimless spending....
    UU, too black and white - in fact I applied for my own R&D tax credit and it took me ages. It would have been a bit easier in future. I received a few thousand dollars (15% of my actual costs), one of just 300 applications. Another business I knew was audited, two bods flew in. They passed. Don't believe all you read, yes, the official line from National was that it would be rorted. Crap, utter lies. It was just a great policy, they couldn't admit it.

    I'm still getting patents sealed from that work in 2009, I intend to have a lot more control over my business in future. If a lot more businesses did that after a small incentive, maybe the country would get somewhere. Do you have a better policy for the 450,000 small businesses in NZ? I would like to hear it.

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