If National wins ...

[elZorro]

Not at all Belgarion, there is a lot of misinformation out there, and I won't pass up the opportunity to give credit where it is due. But it does take some time to find the data in the first place, and get your head around it. I hope Labour manage to get past the rhetoric in 2014, and put these past figures up as the outstanding results that they are, compared to Nationals' record.

Cuzzie, the sort of graphs I mean are the govt budget surpluses and deficits for the last 20 years, the net government long-term debt, the employment graphs for the same period, the tax take figures, the GDP per capita, the number of enterprises (business births minus deaths). In all of these graphs the nine year Labour stint produced meaningful positive results, and by and large these have been undone during National's tenure.

It's easy to say that this was only because of the GFC and the Christchurch earthquakes. But can any National supporter really say that there have been many policies from National that have worked to reduce the gap between rich and poor, rather than the opposite? Point out to me any research about the trickle down theory working.

This new batch of govt performance data we are seeing, is what National's strongest supporters want to see. A reduced tax take from the wealthiest, easy access to R&D funding but only for the biggest companies, ability to sell a rejuvenated business overseas and pocket the tax-free gain, a bigger unemployed pool to keep labour costs low, smaller government to lock in more opportunities for profits, a clamp on minimum wage rises, etc.

[Cuzzie]

Hat's off to ya eZ ... You have this wonderful knack of making people look the fools they are without - as I too often do - just coming out and hitting them with their foolishness. Thank you for taking the time to educate the people who really need it.

Would love to see this character talk the talk instead of being a cheerleader. Maybe that's all he knows. If you were an investment belganrion I would overlook you :-P

[Cuzzie]

Look gloves off, Labour is looking good this time around to get back into power and David Cunliffe is miles better than whats his name , my problem is they do not have enough numbers without the Greenies. Any Govt. or locale board worldwide that has to do deals with the Greenies has ended in an epic fail. I can live with a Labour Govt. without the very bad Helen Clark in control, but I will not stand by and watch Kiwis having the likes of the appalling misinformation
king Ross Abnormal, applying his power on a Labour Govt. Your talking a massive fail right there. Fact is Labour can not do it alone.

Comments?

[elZorro]

Look gloves off, Labour is looking good this time around to get back into power and David Cunliffe is miles better than whats his name , my problem is they do not have enough numbers without the Greenies. Any Govt. or locale board worldwide that has to do deals with the Greenies has ended in an epic fail. I can live with a Labour Govt. without the very bad Helen Clark in control, but I will not stand by and watch Kiwis having the likes of the appalling misinformation
king Ross Abnormal, applying his power on a Labour Govt. Your talking a massive fail right there. Fact is Labour can not do it alone.

Comments?

The Greens are not crazy, Cuzzie. They have looked into where the world is heading, a bit harder than most of us want to. They were talking about climate change, years before the rest of us started hearing about it in the press. Like the rest of us, they like their home comforts too. I think they'll be more concerned with home insulation, energy efficiency, using sustainable wood for housing and building where possible (carbon storage), solar energy part-grants, which I'm all in favour of, etc. So I like Ross Abnormal more than Jabba Joyce.

I agree with you that as an alliance, the Labour and Green parties will be hard to beat in 2014. I'd hoped they'd do that in the last election. I will be happy to see what direction they take NZ in, after 2014. I've had about enough of National.

[Cuzzie]

Sorry elzorro I missed this post. You know you talk - "have been many policies from National that have worked to reduce the gap between rich and poor", but surly mate that is the main difference between right and left wing politics right there. You are right(should I of said left?), Labour takes from the workers to feed the bludgers. National looks after the bludgers too elzorro, not as good as Labour, but they do alright. Enough to help our good image as a first world nation. I like to look at more positive needs that the two main political parties bring and that is helping those help themselves.
How about two living examples from my wife and I. 18 years ago my wife got M.S. She could still be on a benefit, but after six months went back to nursing and has now moved on to further employment. She doing great by the way, but not 100%. You would not now she has M.S nor does she advertise the fact
8 years ago I got told I had six months at best with the cancer I was just diagnosed with. There was a drug that I could go on trial with and it came through. I'm doing great guns too now. Here is the thing, Pharmac's funding at the time was under Helen Clark's reign and had it not been for more funding from her Govt., would not be here right now. For that I am forever grateful. Their chemo drug was costing Pharmac $45 a pill and I was on six a day. I'm on a different drug now, but it's costing you, the tax payers even more. I too could be on the sickness benefit from that day to this day forward. Like hell, I was down at wins trying to stop the bloody thing as soon as I could walk. They refused my request so I had to start generating income asap which I did within weeks. I am thankful for the drug that has saved my life but blow me down, there is no way I will be smothered by she will be right hand outs. I own my business and work part time in employment too. Like my wife, nobody knows of my predicament.
Here is my message, it is not your right to handicap NZ with your handicap, but it is your right to help yourself with your handicap for your own needs - not others. I have relatives that are on wins for next to nothing right now and it pees me off big time.


Fact is Labour is too geared too help the needy & not enough geared to help them - helping themselves. The greenies are too geared in propaganda B.S. Combine Labour with the Green Taliban and you have a major disaster on your hands.
I would rather live because I have worked the right than live because I have been born that right. F*** that & f*** the bludgers that can't help themselves.
BTW belgarion on the contrary, you are too easy period. Cheerleaders like you should look at the Dallas Cowboys to invest in.

[Cuzzie]

As you have gone quite elzorro and have not come through with your promised propaganda it might be a good time to post the graph you so hated to see - again. And that would be: http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/k...rrent_account/
I know you so hate seeing that as it is so damming for Labour. I look forward to you explaining this with facts and not fiction that you said you would - & with graphs to boot you said. Maybe you are busy producing something, if that is the case I will be requiring you to back up anything you post with facts like I have. The best things are simple really - that's if you can back it up. Simple facts - I'm loving it. Maybe something from nz statistics like I did. Yeah, I know, that would be too much to ask from you. Your probs. not mine :-D

[iceman]

[QUOTE=elZorro;442889]Not at all Belgarion, there is a lot of misinformation out there, and I won't pass up the opportunity to give credit where it is due. /QUOTE]

I always thought you were open minded and fair. So the statement above must include Bill English for reigning in the out of control spending inherited from Clark/Cullen, becoming one of the first western economies to come out of recession economic growth starting to look reasonable and sustainable , getting the books balanced, lowering unemployment, Kiwi workers around the World returning home etc etc ?
I think English/Key deserve credit for tha, so am pleased we finally agree on something EZ

[elZorro]

Iceman, I've seen that sort of comment before, which is perfectly correct as long as you mention that it only applies between about 2009 and 2013. And the first part just has to be wrong regardless. Clark/Cullen did not have out of control spending. They had a large tax base behind their policies, and those policies were designed to keep the country moving, and increase the tax base further in proportion. Maybe the GFC meant that some of those policies would have been tweaked temporarily if Labour had stayed in.

Cuzzie, sounds like you have had a tough time, my hat is off to you and your wife for working through it all. Knowing that the State will be there to help in the bad times is one big reason why I'm happy to pay taxes. That, and the contribution to the infrastructure that we all use. Those who would rather not pay any taxes are telling the rest of us to pay their share of NZ's roading, hospitals, schools, etc.

There are a few graphs back in this thread, and I've attached some that I'd saved as files.

[iceman]

EZ Clark/Cullen did not have their out of control spending supported by tax take towards the end of their tenure.
The Government books were deteriorating rapidly and NZ went into recession before the Western world did.

"By the end of 2008, the recession was starting to bite. The NZ economy had already been contracting for a year".
This quote from Alan Bollard's book "The Crisis".

[elZorro]

EZ Clark/Cullen did not have their out of control spending supported by tax take towards the end of their tenure.
The Government books were deteriorating rapidly and NZ went into recession before the Western world did.

"By the end of 2008, the recession was starting to bite. The NZ economy had already been contracting for a year".
This quote from Alan Bollard's book "The Crisis".

So I wonder how much it contracted, because none of the graphs above show deterioration until 2009. Did Alan Bollard provide details on the numbers he's talking about here? Unemployment had started to tick upwards by the end of 2008, but it had also just reached a multi-year low beforehand. In the light of that background, Alan Bollard's comments have to be coming from a right-wing position.