If National wins ...

[Cuzzie]

S.P & EZ, Ian Wishart has pointed out that:

Neither Brown nor Hide appear to have been asked to comment on the truth of the allegations. In fact, Hide has definitely confirmed he was not approached, and that the allegations are false and without substance.


In Nicky Hager’s new book, he has no witnesses at all; no prostitutes admitting to sleeping with Len Brown, no ex-spouse, no woman saying she was sent inappropriate texts by Rodney Hide. Hager’s entire ream of “evidence” is actually hearsay gossip, which is usually inadmissible in court.

So there you go, it can only be "hearsay gossip' at best and now the book is out that is very damning indeed. Not only is there an admission by Hager that all information has been obtained ILLEGALLY by hacking into one's computer but there is also defamation against multiple people. This can only end badly for Hager, the hacker who looks very much like being the one & only Kin Dot Com, the author and publisher of Hagers book. This could be very big news and a massive backlash for the loonie left. Any way you look at it, this can only end badly for all involved in this fabrication of fairy tales. One thing is for sure, the Lawyers are going to make plenty out of this so Hager better had sell plenty of books before it is banned. Seriously, I would be very nerious if I was Hager or the fat man right now.

[fungus pudding]

You voting national FP?

Yes, I will be. As I have often said, I vote against the party or parties who I think will do most harm. This time I put Internet/Mana, The Greens and Labour in that category. Voting National is the only effective vote for me. Besides I like a lot of National's policies and certainly think they've done a good job to date.

[elZorro]

Yes, I will be. As I have often said, I vote against the party or parties who I think will do most harm. This time I put Internet/Mana, The Greens and Labour in that category. Voting National is the only effective vote for me. Besides I like a lot of National's policies and certainly think they've done a good job to date.

FP, that is bull. You want to delay the onset of a CGT, not much else matters to you, does it. Which of National's steady-as-she goes, 'let's not do anything but borrow and sell off state assets' "policies" do you like the most? What other legacy will they leave behind to mark their two terms?

[Banksie]

Yes, I will be. As I have often said, I vote against the party or parties who I think will do most harm. This time I put Internet/Mana, The Greens and Labour in that category. Voting National is the only effective vote for me. Besides I like a lot of National's policies and certainly think they've done a good job to date.

Great, I respect that.

If you believe Greens and Labour will do harm - then yeah, National is the way to go. On the other hand Internet/Mana, even if they are in the ruling coalition what will they have 2, maybe 3, seats? Will they really be able to have much of an impact on they way the country is run?

I do believe the smaller parties throw out extreme policies, well knowing they will never be able to implement them, it is just to scoop up the voters at the extreme of the political spectrum.

Did you watch the minor party debate on Saturday? I was surprised how well some of the candidates came across. Not the wide-eyed radicals they are made out to be.

[fungus pudding]

FP, that is bull. You want to delay the onset of a CGT, not much else matters to you, does it. Which of National's steady-as-she goes, 'let's not do anything but borrow and sell off state assets' "policies" do you like the most? What other legacy will they leave behind to mark their two terms?

I have nothing against a CGT. It certainly will not affect me; I've long since retired from investing and present holdings will be grandfathered. Nor will it affect property traders, as it will not apply in addition to income tax . I just hope if ever adopted it is clearly thought out and designed properly. Allah forbid we end up with crap like the Australian scheme.

[fungus pudding]

Great, I respect that.

If you believe Greens and Labour will do harm - then yeah, National is the way to go. On the other hand Internet/Mana, even if they are in the ruling coalition what will they have 2, maybe 3, seats? Will they really be able to have much of an impact on they way the country is run?

I do believe the smaller parties throw out extreme policies, well knowing they will never be able to implement them, it is just to scoop up the voters at the extreme of the political spectrum.

Did you watch the minor party debate on Saturday? I was surprised how well some of the candidates came across. Not the wide-eyed radicals they are made out to be.

Yes, watched the debate. Internet/mana are a oncer. They will split as soon as parliament reconvenes and internet will not be around in 3 years. I went to listen to Dotcom and highly Scary the other night. Hilarious nonsense. It's sad though that they get support. They could not appeal to anyone with any understanding of the world. The worst thing about them is they look to have killed off The Maori party. Tariana Turia and Pita Sharples were the best thing that ever happened in the Maori world. They sure surprised and impressed me. But your point - will internet/mana have much influence? Yes. Cunliffe will bend Hone's way on some things if they can form a coalition. Hone is licking his chops and so is Highly Scary at the prospect. That is why I donated to Kelvin Davis' electorate - cos Labour will not support or promote their own candidate, but can't come out and say so because they were critical of the Epsom arrangement. That's my sermon for today.

[Banksie]

It's sad though that they get support. They could not appeal to anyone with any understanding of the world.

Hopefully they are also appealing to people who would not have otherwise voted - and here is the crux - if these new voters feel like their vote is wasted, they'll be less inclined to vote next time. On the other hand, if they do happen to get a seat and have some policies passed, hell even if it is only free beer on Fridays, they will start feeling enfranchised. And that is a good thing. An engaged voter can be influenced whereas disengaged/disenfranchised voters will eventually revolt.

I don't feel the Internet Party have a fully developed set of policies, but I can see some that they could use as bargaining tools, such as cheaper universal internet, that should be good for everyone - and many of their other policies overlap with Labour/Green policies so they could claim the win anyway.

Mana, I am not so sure - are they any particular policies of their's that you think Hone would play hard-ball with that would be bad for NZ?

[Major von Tempsky]

One of your many problems Belge, is that you never have a fallback position for when you are wrong, your only recourse is to shut-up on the particular point/subject and hope people won't remember while you burst recklessly into print on some other subject you know little about. Nor are you ever prepared to say you don't know when you don't. Nor are you ever prepared to accept the majority verdict which you need to be able to do to live in a democracy.
Nor do you do any background reading e.g. economic history, mathematical models of the advantages of Specialisation and Free Trade which have made the 13 colonies of the USA - expanded to 50 States, followed by the EU, rich.

[fungus pudding]

Hopefully they are also appealing to people who would not have otherwise voted - and here is the crux - if these new voters feel like their vote is wasted, they'll be less inclined to vote next time. On the other hand, if they do happen to get a seat and have some policies passed, hell even if it is only free beer on Fridays, they will start feeling enfranchised. And that is a good thing. An engaged voter can be influenced whereas disengaged/disenfranchised voters will eventually revolt.

I don't feel the Internet Party have a fully developed set of policies, but I can see some that they could use as bargaining tools, such as cheaper universal internet, that should be good for everyone - and many of their other policies overlap with Labour/Green policies so they could claim the win anyway.

Mana, I am not so sure - are they any particular policies of their's that you think Hone would play hard-ball with that would be bad for NZ?

Here's what they will deliver according to Highly Scary. (N.B. Not would like, will, which you and I know is not possible, but I assure you some of her audience actually believe it will happen.) Her words were well chosen but an unsophisticated audience has no idea of MMP or parliamentary process.
Minimum wage will be $18.80. No GST on anything. Free education including tertiary, school breakfasts for all and a few other bits and pieces.
If people don't vote, or don't want to vote, so-be-it.
I'd hate to see compulsory voting as in Australia, where the disinterested wander in, scratch a piece of paper with no idea who or what is on it. That's far worse than not voting at all. It's one thing to tax people and use that money to buy votes as Labour do and National to a lesser extent; but another matter entirely to make out the things mentioned will happen if they get into parliament.

[Banksie]

Yeah, I can't comment on what Laila said or promised (I can only read their policy statments on the web), I do hope there is a road show in my vicinity and at a suitable time so I can attend. (And - I really do wish we could have intelligent discussion without calling people names. I wasn't sure until I saw the "her" if you were referring to Hone or Laila.)

I'd hate to see compulsory voting as in Australia, where the disinterested wander in, scratch a piece of paper with no idea who or what is on it. That's far worse than not voting at all.

There is a big difference between feeling disinterested and feeling disenfranchised. The disinterested you will never reach, but are you telling me that there is such a big difference in engagement between those in the youngest age group vs those in the oldest age group? (http://www.elections.org.nz/research...ics-electorate). If there is we are doing something seriously wrong in our education system.

Sorry I go on about dis-/enfranchisement, but coming for a country that has seen the worst of it - I feel quite passionate about the situation. Two things drive crime and violence. Disenfranchisement and a huge gap between the wealthy and the poor.