If National wins ...

[Banksie]

Its called balance, Cuzzie.

I read Whale Oil and a few other rabid right wing blogs. Oddly, I stay away from rabid left wing ones as I find them, like the extreme right wing ones, an embarrassment, and I get my fill of that from Whale Oil & Co.

Can I ask you to please stop reading Whale Oil belg. I used to read his blog too, daily, as I like to try and understand everyone's point of view, but no more. I found his tirade against chch particularly offensive and realised that reading his blog gives him oxygen, increases his readership count, and increase his ad revenue. So belg...please stop visiting WO.

[fungus pudding]

I have not heard about that, but maybe you misheard what they were saying, FP.



Some businesses are excluded too, small ones below $30k or so.

Unfortunately it was on Prime so I can't replay it. He sort of mumbled a quick response when Joyce claimed GST would apply to business investment when Robertson said it was designed to direct investment away from housing to the productive sector where it wouldn't apply - or something like that. I'm aware of the small business exemption. It's always puzzled me why Labour claim it would favour business investment over housing when the same rules were to apply. Maybe they've had a rethink.

[slimwin]

I have to say, I actually like some of the Labour policies that are coming out. If it wasn't for the probable tie up with internet/mana and greens to a lessor extent, I'd very possibly swing that way. Cunliffe puts me off though, as does "give me my flag back" Norman. Call it personality politics if you will Belg,it counts for most of the population. As does their vote whether you like it or not.

For the Hager book,pffft. I go back to one politician calling the other a liar(dirty) is nothing new. Another six months of politics then revelations would be the other way around. Bar/smoko room polls (i know you love those Belg) would suggest nobody in the middle is finding whats said in this book very exciting. I was overseas for Hagers first book so didn't get the feel for that one,but the general feeling at work now is he's a weasel. Average man, who was worried about the GCSB, can now also be worried that jounalists can steal email and claim the high ground.

Labour/greens would have beenbetter pushing their policies than getting tarred with the "squealy little girls" brush. Maybe proof would change this or maybe it'll just waste electioneering time.

Another "bush" poll. The majority of Tinder alerts I get have "liked" John Key on their facebook pages. Especially the younger women.

[elZorro]

Unfortunately it was on Prime so I can't replay it. He sort of mumbled a quick response when Joyce claimed GST would apply to business investment when Robertson said it was designed to direct investment away from housing to the productive sector where it wouldn't apply - or something like that. I'm aware of the small business exemption. It's always puzzled me why Labour claim it would favour business investment over housing when the same rules were to apply. Maybe they've had a rethink.

In the current environment, where it cannot be guaranteed that a rental property or building will in fact achieve a net capital gain over a few years, anyone investing or borrowing that sort of money might in turn consider a business instead, especially if they are not super-long-term investors, or if they are looking for more income immediately. Both investment types attract a CGT, but of course a business can have some current assets stripped out of it before selling, and they can be a lot more profitable on an annual basis than property. I'd also guess that instead of selling a business with close to nil stock, it would be cheaper to pay the CGT of 15% on the entire sale. But I haven't looked into that.

[fungus pudding]

In the current environment, where it cannot be guaranteed that a rental property or building will in fact achieve a net capital gain over a few years, anyone investing or borrowing that sort of money might in turn consider a business instead, especially if they are not super-long-term investors, or if they are looking for more income immediately. Both investment types attract a CGT, but of course a business can have some current assets stripped out of it before selling, and they can be a lot more profitable on an annual basis than property. I'd also guess that instead of selling a business with close to nil stock, it would be cheaper to pay the CGT of 15% on the entire sale. But I haven't looked into that.

Property investors and business operators/owners are two distinctly different animals. Property investors will carry on investing in property. e.g. I could not/would not own a business. Not my thing. Serious investors start somewhere and eventually trade up to better quality or from residential to commercial etc ?That activity will slow as would stepping stone farms etc. I repeat - if not properly designed it becomes very complex. I don't get your point about stock. If included in a business it will be at cost - so no gain.

[elZorro]

Property investors and business operators/owners are two distinctly different animals. Property investors will carry on investing in property. e.g. I could not/would not own a business. Not my thing. Serious investors start somewhere and eventually trade up to better quality or from residential to commercial etc ?That activity will slow as would stepping stone farms etc. I repeat - if not properly designed it becomes very complex. I don't get your point about stock. If included in a business it will be at cost - so no gain.

It is possible to be a passive investor in a business, or to buy a managed business. I had a great little earner once, that took five minutes a week, but that's rare.

Regarding stock, I mean the normal process for a retailer who is selling out, is to reduce all the stock to minimum with sales. It makes the selling price cheaper and more affordable for the buyer. But they'd have to pay full income tax on that, whereas a capital sale of the whole asset only has 15% tax.

The other point is that businesses generally employ people, and property investors don't (yes, they use contractors sometimes, frugally).

[fungus pudding]

It is possible to be a passive investor in a business, or to buy a managed business. I had a great little earner once, that took five minutes a week, but that's rare.

Regarding stock, I mean the normal process for a retailer who is selling out, is to reduce all the stock to minimum with sales. It makes the selling price cheaper and more affordable for the buyer. But they'd have to pay full income tax on that, whereas a capital sale of the whole asset only has 15% tax.

The other point is that businesses generally employ people, and property investors don't (yes, they use contractors sometimes, frugally).

Any business sold will be categorised as you well know into stock, plant and goodwill. CGT will not apply to stock. Reducing stock for a sale of the business or any other reason reduces taxable profit. CGT will not come into stock.
Please yourself about businesses. Investors that I know (and there are plenty in my home town with well over 20,000 students from other towns and cities) have no interest whatsoever in owning businesses. The odd one has strayed into motels, but they soon learn and get out again. It's just silly to pretend they want to buy a business instead of investing. It's also silly when Parker says that's what will happen when the tax treatment he talks about does not favour one over the other. I like Robertson's version better. Cunliffe probably has a third version.

[elZorro]

Golly. Has John Armstrong had a brain transplant? ... His past pieces established him as being a National sycophant but now he seems to actually asking the right questions.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2...ectid=11309684

Have a read of the comments ... Many "ordinary people"? are clearly quite angry and want answers. So it seems I'm not alone in my outrage.

edited: One notes that now #TeamKey has taken the "nothing to see here, folks" approach, anyone from the right that starts legal processes to halt any further revelations is going to make it look like #TeamKey is wrong and there is indeed something (or a lot) to hide.

And perhaps worse, if Key is indeed telling the truth and is indeed "out of the sleaze loop" while those around him in #TeamKey has been up to no good then he's not much of leader, more like a figurehead.

You're right, Belgarion. This is much more like proper reporting. Finally, the wordsmiths are giving us some home truths.

John Armstrong:
National's tactic has been to keep the focus on Hager and persuade people he had hidden motives for writing the book - rather than being drawn into arguments about its damning contents.

This has worked for National to some degree - somewhat to Hager's frustration.

Key's damage control operation was designed to both defuse and confuse. However, the Prime Minister looked and sounded distinctly uncomfortable when questioned by reporters on Thursday afternoon.

He conceded nothing. He repeatedly answered questions by saying the book's allegations had "nothing to do with National".
When it was pointed out to him that National was clearly implicated, he made excuses, saying he had not been briefed on the detail.

If Key's answers sounded glib there was good reason. The vilification of Hager by Key and Steven Joyce, National's election campaign supremo and the one designated to front for National when there is trouble, is a charade.

Their dilemma is that they have to rubbish the book as being wrong on every score when they know much if not all of it, is accurate, simply because the contents come straight out of the mouths of Slater, Ede and other National Party figures and associates.

As much as anything, Hager has simply done a compilation job. Key's and Joyce's deny-everything stances are not tenable for long. But if they admit Hager is right about one thing, then they have to concede he is right about everything.

There are five more weeks to the main voting day (20th Sept). Time enough to swing a few voters, surely.

[Cuzzie]

The loonie left fanboys are on fire this morning - whooha look at them go. I guess they did not like the last poll driving Labour towards the minus 20% club and National up to an almost untouchable place where only the well supported popular parties can go. I don't have to reply to any posts so far today, I'll just feel their pain and smile.

BTW, it's another beautiful day today - is it not!!!

[Sgt Pepper]

Sgt, if you ask them any pointed question that they'd have to respond with anything that doesn't show their glorious #TeamKey as radiating wisdom, statesmanship and benevolence, you'll get no response, or meaningless drivel.

Geez, I'm still waiting for these National supporters to front up and tell us all how National intends to deal with the massive funding hole we have with maintaining an unchanged NZ Super ... and as yet nada.

Belg
Don't hold your breath. JK has been in a deliberate state of denial for years, no doubt prompted by Crosby Textors complex economic analysis-not.