If National wins ...

[BlackPeter]

I don't know for sure, but maybe Labour uses Rob Salmond. Here's a reference to them from Chris Trotter, while explaining why Labour didn't feel they could align themselves with the Greens. Probably only because C/T got there first, and had modified public perception against it.

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/04/11...om-the-greens/

The Polity blog (Salmond's company) , some very good techo/indepth data on the campaign, and voting behaviour.

http://polity.co.nz/blog/1

Hi EZ,

I am saddened to learn that it was just the evil powers of C/T snapping Labour the deserved victory away. So I guess the public of New Zealand just got brainwashed - right?

What I however don't understand is- who brainwashed the Labour supporters? Was it really C/T who made you to ram highly unpopular socialist policies down the people's throat? Was it really C/T who made you picking the least popular leader (though a great back stabber, I'll give him that). Was it really C/T who made you focussing on a minute minority instead of representing the people?

If C/T really managed to do all these things with highly intelligent and trained Laboursupporters, than boy, must they be good! And hey, it looks like they even now stop Labour to find the real reasons for their defeat ... cementing Labours decline in perpetuity.

As stated before ... it would be good to see a credible alternative on the Left. However if things continue as they are, I doubt this will be Labour anytime soon! Remember, only sore loosers are always looking for somebody else to assign blame. Winners look at their own failings, learn from them and improve.

[elZorro]

Hi EZ,

I am saddened to learn that it was just the evil powers of C/T snapping Labour the deserved victory away. So I guess the public of New Zealand just got brainwashed - right?

What I however don't understand is- who brainwashed the Labour supporters? Was it really C/T who made you to ram highly unpopular socialist policies down the people's throat? Was it really C/T who made you picking the least popular leader (though a great back stabber, I'll give him that). Was it really C/T who made you focussing on a minute minority instead of representing the people?

If C/T really managed to do all these things with highly intelligent and trained Laboursupporters, than boy, must they be good! And hey, it looks like they even now stop Labour to find the real reasons for their defeat ... cementing Labours decline in perpetuity.

As stated before ... it would be good to see a credible alternative on the Left. However if things continue as they are, I doubt this will be Labour anytime soon! Remember, only sore loosers are always looking for somebody else to assign blame. Winners look at their own failings, learn from them and improve.

BP, the main Labour policies are fairly centrist and common sense. They do rely on a govt assistance to the markets, at least in the first instance. I didn't say that Labour is blameless over the defeat, but in an election year when they had policy - good policy - and National simply offered more of the same, there were other forces at work.

Why do you think it's impossible that the general public of NZ have been brainwashed? We've had 10 years of media onslaught from National's strategists, C/T. Look at the correlation between their work in other countries, and their results. I think the neoliberal factions around the world have been far more organised in using the new media, based on the web, and reinforcing it with TV appearances and brand messaging. C/T are one of the best at their area of expertise, they get results. In this case, results mean steadily changing the opinion of the population of entire countries. Now that's power.

Could you explain to me what the average citizen of NZ will gain from having National back in power? In which ways do you see our lot being improved? I doubt that you care very much about that. You also seem unaware that under National, the country is going backwards, according to many statistics.

[Sgt Pepper]

Hi EZ,

I am saddened to learn that it was just the evil powers of C/T snapping Labour the deserved victory away. So I guess the public of New Zealand just got brainwashed - right?

What I however don't understand is- who brainwashed the Labour supporters? Was it really C/T who made you to ram highly unpopular socialist policies down the people's throat? Was it really C/T who made you picking the least popular leader (though a great back stabber, I'll give him that). Was it really C/T who made you focusing on a minute minority instead of representing the people?

If C/T really managed to do all these things with highly intelligent and trained Laboursupporters, than boy, must they be good! And hey, it looks like they even now stop Labour to find the real reasons for their defeat ... cementing Labours decline in perpetuity.

As stated before ... it would be good to see a credible alternative on the Left. However if things continue as they are, I doubt this will be Labour anytime soon! Remember, only sore loosers are always looking for somebody else to assign blame. Winners look at their own failings, learn from them and improve.

BP
I was intrigued about the " raming of highly unpopular socialist policies down the peoples throat". It seems to me that many of these " socialist " policies seem remarkably resilient and poplular. I note that along with National Super, Working For Families(i.e." communism by stealth" according to one John Key in 2006), interest free student loans, and 20 hours free early childhood education, have , in effect become protected species.

Hmm , socialist policies seem very popular amongst National voters as well. Its not so much as being ramed down throats, National voters seem equally enthused to dine at the free money cafe. If not, then why didn't John Key have the courage of his earlier convictions and reverse them?

[fungus pudding]

BP, the main Labour policies are fairly centrist and common sense. They do rely on a govt assistance to the markets, at least in the first instance. I didn't say that Labour is blameless over the defeat, but in an election year when they had policy - good policy - and National simply offered more of the same, there were other forces at work.

If you really believe that then you must accept Bob Harvey's opinion, that Labour needs to rebrand with a new colour and a new name. So that's it! Keep the same policies, the same personnel, same leadership, call themselves something different and they'll fly in next time. Simple - eh!
And change the red to pink.

[Major von Tempsky]

Yeah, pink would go with Grant Robertson ;-)

[Sgt Pepper]

Yeah, pink would go with Grant Robertson ;-)

Major

Talking bout colours.Perhaps as well as John Keys obsession about changing the colour of our flag ( and wasting $10 million in the process) he could change the name of the National Party to the " Chameleon Party". . A lizard which changes colour rapidly in response to an environment, quite appropriate really, do you not think?

[elZorro]

Exactly what I mean - if Labour vote Grant Robertson in as leader, it'll be never-ending innuendo from people like FP, MVT et al. Not to mention the really serious bloggers who help cement National in place.

[fungus pudding]

Exactly what I mean - if Labour vote Grant Robertson in as leader, it'll be never-ending innuendo from people like FP, MVT et al. Not to mention the really serious bloggers who help cement National in place.

At least you realise that. That's a start.

[nextbigthing]

Exactly what I mean - if Labour vote Grant Robertson in as leader, it'll be never-ending innuendo from people like FP, MVT et al. Not to mention the really serious bloggers who help cement National in place.

el Z I agree and I'll be jumping on the poke fun at Robertson train too . Like it or not Robertson is a bad move for this reason. But Labour have the choice, they don't have to make him leader.
So Robertson out. Cunliffe is hated by his own caucus (and the nz public) so he should be out. Ardern needs another term IMHO. So who does that leave? Outsider? You el Z?
Should've stuck with Shearer. Non controversial.

[craic]

Why can't you Labourites simply say "We need a leader of the calibre of John Key and we simply can't find one at present" that would be a start - recognise your problem. Then say "Where can we find one" and then start looking. There is absolutely no sense in putting up a sows ear and then spending all your time and money trying to convince the public that it is a silk purse - they won't believe you.