If National wins ...

[minimoke]

BP, the main Labour policies are fairly centrist any common sense.

Indeed they are and I'd go as far as saying there isn't a heck of a lot between national and labour.bother are centre and a tad to the lefy

Could you explain to me what the average citizen of NZ will gain from having National back in power?.

they will gain by not having a labour government propped up by Internet mana and the socialist greens.

I think we are also loosing sight of the Greens failure to get any more traction. Labour and greens combined only lost three seats. National only gained two. But it was winnie who came out the big winner with three more seats.

so the answer lies in attracting winnies votes as well as the 4% missing conservative vote.

[nextbigthing]

Why can't you Labourites simply say "We need a leader of the calibre of John Key and we simply can't find one at present" that would be a start - recognise your problem. Then say "Where can we find one" and then start looking. There is absolutely no sense in putting up a sows ear and then spending all your time and money trying to convince the public that it is a silk purse - they won't believe you.

Exactly right Craic. But it's never going to happen.

What about an outsider like Owen Glen or someone similar?

[couta1]

If labor put Robertson in they will lose more votes especially from South Auckland as like it or not being openly gay is not acceptable by the majority of Island people or a lot of mainstream .people for that matter, the Conservatives will pick up more votes if this occurs.

[minimoke]

Exactly right Craic. But it's never going to happen.
?

Ditto. Time to look at the List and put a decent person on the top. You then get andrew little to step aside as he has little appeal and labour need someone with a broader background than the unions. Get rid of the quota system and identify candidates who will do the job at electorate level based on merit. Then get the likes of Trevor mallard to retire he can go back to nz rail since he is still a card holder. Flag away ideas that celebrity gays will do the job. Tamati coffee was never going to invigorate the party. Ditch the leader selection process. Really, who would want to join a party where you can lead without the support of your teammates at caucus.

[westerly]

You going to be part of this group EZ
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11332997

Might be better if they let outsiders tell them everything that went wrong.

With Minerb. Iceman, NBT and Craic. etc they are getting plenty from the right. As an aside has Cuzzie been resurected under another name.? Come back Belge we need you.
Shearer or Cunliffe are both capable of leading but as EZ says the right wing crusaders will continue to attack the man and not the policy,

westerly

[craic]

Well! If thats not 'the Kettle calling the Pot Black' then I don't know what is. If any leader in this last election was attacked, it was John Key who had left wing journalists publishing books to destroy him. Rich fat boys spending millions to discredit him and Labour limping along in the backgroung trying to take the credit or gather any crumbs.

With Minerb. Iceman, NBT and Craic. etc they are getting plenty from the right. As an aside has Cuzzie been resurected under another name.? Come back Belge we need you.
Shearer or Cunliffe are both capable of leading but as EZ says the right wing crusaders will continue to attack the man and not the policy,

westerly

[Sgt Pepper]

John Key has principles, and if anyone doesn't like them ... he has others

[Sgt Pepper]

I see Peter Dunne in the Herald after having signed a supply and confidence deal with JK. None of his so called ' core policies" will be advanced, however I am sure he bargained hard, second after second, and then reluctantly just had to accept a cabinet position, for the good of the country of course. He has all the worst attributes of a professional politician

[elZorro]

el Z I agree and I'll be jumping on the poke fun at Robertson train too . Like it or not Robertson is a bad move for this reason. But Labour have the choice, they don't have to make him leader.
So Robertson out. Cunliffe is hated by his own caucus (and the nz public) so he should be out. Ardern needs another term IMHO. So who does that leave? Outsider? You el Z?
Should've stuck with Shearer. Non controversial.

NBT: First, I am not qualified or even interested in being a candidate, and anyone wanting to be PM will have had a stint or two in parliament. So whoever gets Labour's leadership, we'll already know them.

Do you realise that it's only on the press' say-so that NZ thinks as you do: "The knives are out" "Autopsy on Labour" "Navel gazing" etc as headlines. I have no idea what caucus think privately about David Cunliffe. They seemed to be fairly unified going up to the election, and my electorate was very welcoming to DC when he called past. It's obvious that there are a few higher up the ranks who want a crack at being leader at some stage, Stuart Nash will wait for a better chance later, I'm sure.

I have to agree, that a very good team would have been better prepared for a loss: DC would have followed clear protocol and resigned immediately, or offered to, then the review would be done, and then DC would resume the job with full and clear backing of everyone at caucus. They still have a big say in who gets elected, but DC was also careful to keep the backing of the party faithful. He has a good chance of keeping the post.

[elZorro]

Well! If thats not 'the Kettle calling the Pot Black' then I don't know what is. If any leader in this last election was attacked, it was John Key who had left wing journalists publishing books to destroy him. Rich fat boys spending millions to discredit him and Labour limping along in the backgroung trying to take the credit or gather any crumbs.

MVT reckons Nicky Hager is well off, I don't think that's the case. He had by far the most powerful argument on why we should be very careful about trusting John Key. Nicky got to that position with a lot of sheer hard work and dedication, and the book royalties won't pay for much of it. He built his own house, and when interviewed recently, the reporter said that his clothes didn't owe him anything. He's either trying really hard to conceal his asset position, or he's on a fairly average income.